"The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism" by Naomi Klein

[Myra Bronstein]

I think this is the best big picture book I've read. Naomi Klein is brilliant; the book is brilliant.

Since I'm just starting to think of the Oklahoma City bombing as a classic shock op with the standard agenda (ram through "anti-terrorism" legislation that shreds the US constitution), I now wonder why Naomi did not discuss Oklahoma City in her book.

Has anyone seen her discuss Oklahoma City in an interview or an article?

I'll probably try emailing her assistant about it, but I've never received an answer from her before.

[Charles Drago]

It's late night for me, so I'll go short and sweet on this one.

I'm tempted to think of both OKC and TWA 800 as proschemata -- opportunities afforded an ostensibly clueless Clinton to do what Bush ultimately did (in the most passive sense) when he invaded Iraq in the wake of 9-11.

Clinton didn't take the bait. The ante was upped. The towers were downed.

A toast: I give you the war.

I too admire and respect Ms. Klein. But I'm not certain her deep politics shovel can penetrate bedrock. Hence the absence of OKC and, if I'm not mistaken, Dallas, Memphis, and Los Angeles from her magnum opus.

[Myra Bronstein]

It's late night for me, so I'll go short and sweet on this one.

I'm tempted to think of both OKC and TWA 800 as proschemata -- opportunities afforded an ostensibly clueless Clinton to do what Bush ultimately did (in the most passive sense) when he invaded Iraq in the wake of 9-11.

Clinton didn't take the bait. The ante was upped. The towers were downed.

A toast: I give you the war.

I too admire and respect Ms. Klein. But I'm not certain her deep politics shovel can penetrate bedrock. Hence the absence of OKC and, if I'm not mistaken, Dallas, Memphis, and Los Angeles from her magnum opus.

Well I don't think that the JFK/RFK/MLK assassinations fit the model of disaster capitalism Charles, wherein the mobsters take advantage of public shock over an event to ram through legislation that wouldn't pass under ordinary circumstances. For example the patriot act was passed in the aftermath of 911. I do think Oklahoma City falls into the shock doctrine category, given the anti-terrorism legislation that was passed using it as an excuse.

Hm, I forgot about TWA 800. Not that I know a whole lot to forget. I wonder how that fits in to the big picture.

[Peter Lemkin]

It's late night for me, so I'll go short and sweet on this one.

I'm tempted to think of both OKC and TWA 800 as proschemata -- opportunities afforded an ostensibly clueless Clinton to do what Bush ultimately did (in the most passive sense) when he invaded Iraq in the wake of 9-11.

Clinton didn't take the bait. The ante was upped. The towers were downed.

A toast: I give you the war.

I too admire and respect Ms. Klein. But I'm not certain her deep politics shovel can penetrate bedrock. Hence the absence of OKC and, if I'm not mistaken, Dallas, Memphis, and Los Angeles from her magnum opus.

I tend to agree with Charles here, that those listed (and many others we could list) fall into the shocks of the type Klein had presented. Her book is a tour de force, in that it underlines and presents a new way of analysis - it is wanting in the examples. Take that as a minor criticism that I hope others (or she herself) will correct. Her recent talks on how the current 'financial collapse' was one such a Shock in order to change the Order of Things tells me she 'gets it' on some level. Having presented the new lens with which to look at such events, it is up to us to apply that to the events we know. I'm not even aware if she is 'up to speed' on some of the events listed above. She has made her contribution and we now have a more clear way to do analysis and move her conceptualization forward.

[Charles Drago]

Well I don't think that the JFK/RFK/MLK assassinations fit the model of disaster capitalism Charles, wherein the mobsters take advantage of public shock over an event to ram through legislation that wouldn't pass under ordinary circumstances. For example the patriot act was passed in the aftermath of 911. I do think Oklahoma City falls into the shock doctrine category, given the anti-terrorism legislation that was passed using it as an excuse.

Hm, I forgot about TWA 800. Not that I know a whole lot to forget. I wonder how that fits in to the big picture.

Myra,

I wouldn't presume to speak for Ms. Klein or to claim that I am sufficiently well-versed in her hypothesis to offer in-depth analysis.

However, I feel confident to suggest that she would be sympathetic to the idea that the sort of public shock over a manufactured event that is central to her argument may be utilized for purposes other than pressuring passage of legislation which in non-crisis circumstances would be unlikely to become law.

Think of the significant changes in post-JFK Cold War foreign policy as de facto legislation that could have been implemented only after Kennedy was removed prematurely from office.

Think of OKC and TWA 800 as "shocks" that were stilled by the buffering effects of Clinton's failures to take full advantage.

Back to the '60s: I would go so far as to argue that the Civil Rights Act might not have passed absent the tragedy in Dallas, and that that legislation served the short- and long-term purposes of assassination sponsors by supporting the illusion of a democratic America even as democracy vanished in a halo of blood on November 22, 1963.

The shock of RFK's murder served to prevent certain legislative changes that would have formed the foundations of another Kennedy presidency. Accordingly, we can argue that Ms. Klein's hypothesis extends to the central event of June 4, 1968.

And the murder of Dr. King, which I ask that you see as the yang to the Civil Rights Act's yin, also may fit within the Klein paradigm.