Reply to Bart Kamp at Ciphered Past

[Richard Gilbride]

Bart Kamp was interviewed on February 21st by Tim Gardner and Eli Frame on their youtube channel Ciphered Past. I had the opportunity to watch it this morning, and made this reply. Some things never change:

Bart Kamp is the JFK research community's Nigel Tufnel, the brain-damaged Spinal Tap guitarist whose amplifiers all "go to 11." His knuckleheaded theses have been debunked and he remains unable to process any analysis or information that contradicts his Sophistic conclusions.

The viewer is invited to my website jfkinsidejob.com. My essay Death of the Lunchroom Hoax completely dismantles Kamp's sophomoric hypothesis. And the reader may realize for himself that the ambiguity surrounding the 2nd-floor lunchroom reportage was due to the human tendency to make mistakes with second-hand information. And my essay Furthering the Lunchroom Evidence makes it plain as day that Officer Baker recognized Oswald (from the 2nd-floor encounter) while writing up his DPD affidavit at police headquarters.

Kamp avoids any discussion of facts that refute his thesis, especially Wesley Frazier's account of "an apple and half-eaten cheese sandwich" seen on one of the lunchroom tables by superintendent Roy Truly. Instead, he preys upon the gullibility of unsuspecting listeners to justify his own misbegotten scholarship.

His PrayerMan nonsense has been 100% refuted by the equally painstaking research of Brian Doyle. Any legitimate height analysis shows the blurry figure is 5'3"- 5'4", 6 inches too short to be Oswald. The clearest photo-enhancement shows a fat woman in a dress with a scooped neckline. This was secretary Sarah Stanton, according to Wesley Frazier. (That photo-enlargement, by the way, was sent to House Representative Anna Paulina Luna last week.)

And Kamp cherry-picks James Hosty's notes out of context and imbues them with a meaning they don't ordinarily have. This Sophistic sleight-of-hand is explained in the last section of my essay Elevators Tell No Lies.

A digitized 1st-generation copy of Jimmy Darnell's film has been available for viewing several years at the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas. Yet not a single viewer has ever remarked on any distinctive resemblance of PrayerMan to Lee Harvey Oswald.

Kamp's logical fallacy - appealing for the original Darnell film from NBC - is akin to looking for a needle where there isn't even a haystack. He used this fallacious logic earlier with the deleted Dictabelt excerpt of Roy Truly's testimony. Yes, it was deleted during his characterization of employee Jack Dougherty, but no, that deletion didn't have the first thing to do with PrayerMan.

As I emphasized to Representative Luna, you don't need any more documents declassified in order to prove a high-level conspiracy. Firstly, the TSBD Company only moved into an abandoned warehouse overlooking Dealey Plaza the winter before the assassination. And, within 10 minutes of the assassination, there were two episodes involving the building's elevators which were suppressed.

[Brian Doyle]

I tend to think Baker was already drafted in to the cover-up by the time he gave his 1st day affidavit...The reason why Baker waffled on Oswald being in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room is because both Truly & Baker saw Oswald's lunch on the table and Coca Cola in his hand and realized right away that he had been in there the whole time...That is why Truly said, once he cleared Oswald, that Baker turned without saying anything and ran up the stairs...By the time of the 1st day affidavit this information was fatal to the conspiracy so it was erased...At that time it was erased to the point of not even mentioning the Lunch Room and just vaguely referencing "3rd or 4th Floor"...A bizarre possibility exists that Truly & Baker ran in to Armstrong's Lee in the White T-shirt on the 3rd Floor staircase landing and that is why Baker gave that location...

Because of Bart Kamp and all his sycophantic fans (including Ciphered Past) Frazier's bombshell admission that an un-named Depository employee told him a partly-eaten cheese sandwich and apple were seen on the 2nd Floor Lunch Room table after the assassination has been disappeared from Assassination discussion websites...That is what the Prayer Man clique does...They erase critical new evidence that helps solve the case in order to promote an already-disproven theory...If you go to their websites they are saying Lovelady's bag lunch and Dr Pepper bottle seen in the portal are Oswald's while they completely ignore this important new evidence told of by Frazier on a radio show 5 years ago...Kamp tells Tim Gardner in Ciphered Past that Lovelady's bag lunch in the column notch by Prayer Man is Oswald's lunch...They ignore the fact Lovelady testified that he brought his lunch out to the front steps when he saw Sarah Stanton and Shelley out there...

Ten years ago the Davidson enhancement showing Stanton's chubby face on Prayer Man in Wiegman was proof enough that Prayer Man was Stanton...This obvious evidence was denied by people who have captured the Assassination internet and go by favorites...Davidson showed Stanton holding her purse with two hands and looking down in to it...Stanton's grand daughter even sent me a photo of the purse...This was compounded by the fact that Altgens 6 shows all the people to Frazier's left and Stanton isn't there...Frazier said he was standing and staring at Stanton at the exact moment of the Darnell Film...One look at the Darnell Film shows Frazier standing and staring at Prayer Man...There is just no doubt about it however we have certain individuals who see themselves as being above facts and evidence...The final proof was the clear 1st generation copy of Darnell possessed by the 6th Floor Museum...It settled the issue once and for all by showing Sarah Stanton's woman's dress neckline on Prayer Man...This wasn't good enough for the Prayer Man liars however and they claimed the neckline was a CIA forgery...Those approaching Luna are not asking her to subpoena the 6th Floor Museum 1st generation clear copy...They don't want to admit what it shows...

More importantly, in my search for Prayer Man's identity I accidentally stumbled upon a new witness to Oswald's whereabouts...Wanda Daniel's admission that Sarah told her she saw Oswald alone outside the 2nd Floor Lunch Room on the staircase landing is probably the most important evidence discovery of our generation...I have never seen Jim DiEugenio mention this discovery once or show any interest in it...It is almost like it never existed...The research community is more interested in maintaining their clique than recognizing the most important discovery of our generation...And the shibboleth by which membership is achieved is Prayer Man and buddying with Bart Kamp...This evidence means Mrs Reid was CIA and was clearing the Lunch Room out for Oswald, who was waiting out on the staircase landing...I was destroyed as a researcher, and a final solving of the conspiracy was ignored, all so the clique could promote a Greg Parker-originating hoax...Instead of recognizing this incredible new break-through Jim D is helping destroy both Oliver Stone's and the research community's credibility by bringing a nut theory to Congress...

The context of Hosty's Notes is that Hosty told Nigel Turner that Oswald told them he was alone in the Lunch Room during the assassination...This wasn't in Hosty's Notes because it was Oswald's true location in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room...The context of Hosty telling Nigel Turner that was Hosty finally admitting the truth and getting the guilt off his shoulders...When I pointed this out to Tim Gardner and told him he should have mentioned it to Kamp Gardner put me on block...The Oswald Sarah Stanton saw alone out on the 2nd Floor staircase landing was the same Oswald Hosty admitted was alone in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room...It is also the same Oswald Carolyn Arnold saw alone in that same Lunch Room...

It is obvious to any credible researcher that the original Darnell Film will only show the female dress neckline seen in the 6th Floor Museum copy in even clearer detail...And the original Wiegman Film will only show Stanton's face in clearer detail...The crime and tragedy of all this is the conspiracy evidence has been advanced by Richard and myself more than it ever has in research history however it is being ignored and denied by self-indulgent, advantage-taking researchers all so they can advance that Prayer Man nonsense and the illegitimate hierarchy it enforces... 

As far as I know I was the only person to speak to Carol Reed...She told me important things about there being no power in the passenger elevator...There are people out there calling themselves credible researchers...However credible researchers don't ignore things like this...

[Richard Gilbride]

Nice supplementary details.

"The crime and tragedy in all this is that the conspiracy evidence has been advanced by Richard and myself more than it ever has in research history however it is being ignored and denied...."

Succinctly put.

For one thing, Oswald was in the 2nd-floor lunchroom at the time of the shooting sequence. This was the penultimate paragraph of Death of the Lunchroom Hoax. And Brian drove in the clinching golden spike by posting the analysis here on Deep Politics, which was reproduced in the last section of Elevators Tell No Lies, conclusively placing him in the 2nd-floor lunchroom.

For another thing, no researcher in 60 years had ever been troubled by the elevator shut-off at approx. 12:38 that Luke Mooney described in his report, which deliberately remained hidden in Sheriff Decker's files. This was during the first minute of the police search of the Depository - and its purpose was to retard the search of the 6th floor. It was not a spur-of-the-moment teenage prank, but had been incorporated into the planning for the assassination. And further traces of this power shut-off disappeared once the after-action reports of Treasury agents, simultaneously searching the building, inexplicably disappeared.

The JFK assassination conspiracy included several Depository employees, playing critical roles. This is revolutionary progress in CounterCoup reasoning. Yet it is purposefully, obstinately blockaded by the PrayerMan tribe.

[Brian Doyle]

Your works and comments need to be regularly displayed at The Education Forum where they could get more circulation and have more influence...I wish this website had more activity...There's nothing stopping people from posting...


In any case the presence of Oswald in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room is enhanced by Armstrong's brilliant 6th Floor Escape Theory...I believe Lee escaped via the passenger elevator per Armstrong's theory and exited on the 3rd Floor where he took advantage of the 3rd Floor's isolated hallway...It is possible but not necessary that right after Truly & Baker encountered Harvey in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room they ran up the stairs to the 3rd Floor staircase landing and encountered Lee in his white T-shirt...This possible encounter may have been what brought Baker in on Intel gag orders and may be the reason why he fudged and pushed the encounter up to the 3rd or 4th Floor and not the Lunch Room...

Harvey had gone down to the Lobby via either the NW stairs or through the offices and down the SE stairs...Lee then went down to the 2nd Floor Lunch Room where he bought a Coca Cola in order to establish a prop that would associate him with Harvey who also had a Coca Cola...The idea being that the Coke would make people think they were the same person and not notice the subtle differences...The Coca Cola then had to be worked out of the evidence because it was too exposing of Harvey being in the Lunch Room...

Harvey had set-up in the Lobby waiting for supervisor Shelley to return and give him permission to leave...A cop was stationed at the front door preventing anyone from leaving...Lee then walked through the offices with his Coke and was noticed by Mrs Reid...Lee went down the SE staircase and in to the Lobby where he descended in to the Lobby with Harvey on the other side of the Lobby by the door...Harvey saw Lee and panicked and tried to exit through the front door...The cop noticed Harvey's panic and stopped him, paying attention to this fleeing person and detaining him...Shelley had returned by this time and noticed what was happening so he intervened as Harvey's "superintendent", telling the cop Harvey was OK and was an employee...The cop de-escalated and told Harvey to step aside and wait...Lee also saw the mistake he had made and swung a 180 and in to the Utility Closet under the SE stairs...Campbell would later see Lee in there when he came back in...

Shelley still had the problem of the two Oswald's being in the same place so he escorted Harvey out the rear Loading Dock exit where he was seen by Buell Frazier as he exited and walked down Houston and over to Elm and the bus...Making sure he didn't make the same mistake again, Lee exited through the west rear exit and was seen by Helen Forrest exiting via the Grassy Knoll and the Station Wagon...Lee got in the Station Wagon that was driven by his co-conspirator from the 6th Floor where he was setting up Harvey...The cop in the Lobby was never identified by the Warren Commission or interviewed because this Lobby Encounter was seriously threatening to the conspiracy and had to be covered-up...Neither Oswald exited through the front door - which is why the investigation is so unexplainably lacking on how Oswald left the Depository...Lovelady helped his CIA partner Shelley by planting a BS story of seeing Oswald leave via the front door with Jarman at the HSCA...Jarman was the only person Lovelady told this story to because he was lying and trying to cover-up the dangerous real Lobby Encounter...No authority ever went to Lovelady and asked him why he never told that witnessing to anyone else or in his original statement...In the Martin Film Lovelady is smoking nervously and paying great attention to the front door...

Richard, the irony of ironies is that this brilliant solving of the case is met by an egoscape of stupidity and intolerance where you can solve the conspiracy and the reaction from the research community is organized ignoring...Even worse, organized ignoring for the purpose of entertaining a Greg Parker troll theory conducted by the research clown Bart Kamp so certain people can maintain their favoritism for Jim DiEugenio...Ciphered Past reacts to this by putting me on block and assisting Bart Kamp in an hour and a half of evidence-evasion and avoidance...The one thing they won't allow in their destructive effort of evidence discussion is Harvey being in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room during the assassination and getting up to go over to look out at the staircase after hearing Adams & Styles clatter by on the landing...Armstrong and others are brilliant, however they came up one step short of reaching the correct conclusions...What I am writing here is that correct conclusion and the community reacted to it with ignoring and censorship all so it could help Jim D bring a bogus Greg Parker theory to Congress...Jim should have been escorting myself to Luna's microphone if he wanted to see some real progress in solving the case...

[Brian Doyle]

Richard:


    Robert Groden for the Wiegman Film -  972-(edited for Groden's privacy)

[Richard Gilbride]

Thanks on that, I will reach out to him soon, Waiting to hear back from an anonymous technical assistant...

[Brian Doyle]

E-Mail:  


           (E-Mail address Edited for Groden's privacy)


Just a reminder: The Wiegman Film will show Chris Davidson's female face of Sarah Stanton as he discovered in the "Davidson Enhancement" of the clearest Wiegman frame...

Luna should subpoena the 6th Floor Museum's 1st generation copy of the Darnell Film that shows Sarah Stanton's female dress neckline on Prayer Man...It should be fairly easy for the Task Force to get...

[Brian Doyle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5diHVHT-lM&t=3391s



Ciphered Past spoke to Morley about the Wiegman Film at 52:25 of the video above...


The research community has protected the bogus Prayer Man theory since day one and that is continuing with Tim Gardner above...When I got word a couple of years ago that Morley was going to include the Prayer Man films in his approaching of the Luna Task Force I e-mailed him warning him what a mistake that would be...Apparently he listened because when the Task Force convened he disclaimed any belief that the films showed Oswald and seriously distanced himself from it...Morley actually told Luna that he did not believe the films showed Oswald...Gardner knows this however his type of journalism involves not mentioning this important disclaimer to Morley or getting him to comment on why he disassociated himself from the Prayer Man claim...I find that highly dishonest on Gardner and Morley's behalf and it speaks to a lot of things...They don't have much respect for the viewers...

The problem with this search is Morley, Schnapf, Simpich, and DiEugenio are some of the people with the least technical skill in analyzing the films...This is clear just from listening to Morley who apparently seems to have no knowledge of the technical analysis that has already been put to the existing images...Listening to Morley he has no working knowledge of the digital formats involved or how the films will be scanned and enhanced...This is not the person I would have put forth as the go between on this topic...Luna being the main front person makes it even worse since she can't even get names right let alone approach NBC on the necessary technical basis...

Morely seems to have zero awareness of Chris Davidson and his digital enhancement process that could be applied to the original film...Morley also has zero awareness that the existing copies of Wiegman that NBC licenses were scanned from the original when that copy was made...Oliver Stone's producer Rob Wilson has the technical knowledge to instruct NBC where to look and trace when those originals were scanned...He's the one who should be talking to NBC and telling them where to look...Instead we get Morley and his unskilled armchair perspective...There is zero coming from Morley to assure us the best skilled approach will be made and provide us the details...

Morley tells Gardner that the films will make no difference and not solve anything even if it shows Oswald...Neither Gardner nor Morley mention the fact that Chris Davidson already brought Sarah Stanton's face out on Prayer Man in Wiegman...If they manage to get Groden to scan it they will find that Stanton's face will be even more visible on the original...Morley seems to have no knowledge of this technical aspect that the original will show Stanton in even better clarity...He seems to be totally ignorant of Davidson and Gardner is not going to mention it...Nor is Gardner going to mention the 6th Floor Museum 1st generation copy of Darnell that shows Sarah Stanton's female dress neckline in clear visibility...Morley seems to be totally ignorant of this and how the original already brought out condemning proof...This is what the internet clique is good for is domination and removal of important information all so that BS Prayer Man theory can be promoted...

Just to accent the goofy dysfunction of the JFK research community Groden possesses the original but he doesn't respond to the serious imperative of scanning and evaluating it...This is classic of the egotistical dysfunction of the research community where cooperation is like pulling teeth...Groden doesn't have to donate the film, as Morley says, he just has to allow it to be professionally scanned and enhanced...And that has to be done by the most skilled so Davidson's image of Stanton's face is revealed...

[Richard Gilbride]

I left Robert Groden a phone message, said I'll check back with him in a short while. 

The Texas Film Archive down in Austin has a digital scanner that will perform the service for free, as part of their Texas Film Roundup program. But it's expensive equipment and is not portable.

Groden lives 3 hours away. Because of his poor eyesight, I'm not so sure that he still drives. So I mentioned the possibility of taking an Uber down to Austin. The importance of getting it done, I emphasized, is simply showing the knuckleheads' narrative that Oswald was on the landing is just plain wrong. They've taken this fairy tale all the way to Congress.

It's really up to Groden.

[Brian Doyle]

I have to imagine that part of the reluctance on Groden's behalf is due to it already being obvious from Davidson and the 6th Floor Museum's 1st generation copy that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...It is a hard chore for something that has already been proven and all we are really doing is entertaining the defiance of the Prayer Man fanatics...I wish Groden would be more cooperative and tell us what the original shows...If Groden has the in-can original I can tell you right now it shows the exact same thing that is seen in the Davidson Enhancement...Davidson needs to be involved because he needs to bring Stanton's face out of the shadows...Also, if you get a chance ask Groden if he also has the original Darnell Film...Or if he could elucidate on the background of the Jones Collection 6th Floor Museum 1st generation copy...

The knuckleheads are going to insist on the best high quality scanning technology...How the community would pay for that I don't know...Maybe Morley could help with that...Maybe the 6th Floor Museum 1st generation copy should also be scanned and enhanced...