28-09-2013, 04:30 PM
Tony Szamboti Wrote:Jeffrey Orling Wrote:People are quick to call someone a liar. This assumes that the person who made the utterance or wrote a statement knew that it was factually untrue. People make such statements all the time believing them to be true without intent to deceive.
The cases of people referring to Tony as a liar I presume is based on the notion that Tony's has been made aware of the technical reasons why something he said or wrote is untrue. For those who make such a claim there is no wiggle room and Tony is believed to be perfectly capable of understanding his error and his persistence in repeating said claim can only be attributed to his inability to admit a mistake and or his willful attempt to maintain a fiction. I think this sort of charge applies to Tony because he claims to be technically on top of his game, unlike some others who post on internet forums and who simply copy, paste, and repeat and cheer from the sidelines so to speak. While what the supporters believe and do may be incorrect their error in thinking is somewhat understandable... they are not engineers, physicists and so forth and the positions they espouse are simply repeating what people who they believe are experts have said or written based on rigorous science and rational critical thinking.
Magda is asking for some academics who persumably have no skin the game to study and report on the matter. This is certainly a fine idea. But because of the charged politics it's hard to find anyone who hasn't taken a position either broadly supporting the official account or broadly opposing it. It's rather hard to produce blind studies of the WTC events.
And of course the level of discourse is pretty low and flooded with all manner of insults and ad hom arguments such as calling someone who does not support a belief an agent who is trying to destroy the movement of those who are striving for the truth.
I don't find the level of discourse at Randi something to hold up as an example for anyone. I will say there are at least a few people who post there who do have a fair amount of technical standing in a sea of others who don't. I do find the 911freeforms to be relatively free of non technically driven agendas. It's not a political site such as DP... and so it doesn't appeal to and is not read by member of DP. But if it's technical understanding of the little evidence that does exists, 911FF is the place to go to further understanding. And if one does spend time reading through the posts one can see that the level of understanding as evolved over time as the analysis and tools for analysis have improved.
You can only "debate" so much when you neither have all the facts nor can agree on the ones that are accessible.
Oops, time for another reality check here. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiHeCjZlkr8
The North Tower never decelerates and a natural collapse would have to. This is something Jeffrey seems to get tongue tied explaining.
He also forgets to tell you that his ROOSD (Runaway Outer Office Space Destruction or more commonly known as pancaking) requires a significant number of floors to be broken loose, so there needs to be column destruction during the first several stories of the collapse before ROOSD can even start.
By saying ROOSD explains everything Jeffrey is trying to tell you that a horse isn't required to pull the cart and that it magically moves on its own.
P.S. the only individuals who have ever called me a liar were anonymous individuals with wacky ideas and postulations on the JREF Forum. It is a disgrace that you would even say that here. Neither you or anyone on the JREF Forum has ever shown me to be in error, you only try to say you have. So it is also disgraceful for you to talk as though you and these anonymous individuals have. Your discourse here reminds me of that of a teenager telling fibs about things he has done to impress people.
ROOSD explains the destruction once the threshold mass, in this case perhaps 5 floor masses crashed onto an undamaged floor and the rest was wash rinse and repeat to the ground.
As I have stated for years now the issue is how did those top sections of the towers...12 -15 in 1WTC and about 30 in 2WTC break apart and break free. We know the plane damage severed several and weakened/damaged other columns. The damage as not symmetrical w/ respect to the CG of the upper sections in both cases. And neither was the weakening from heat which came from unfought fires on unprotected steel (assumed) which finally drove the capacity of the remaining columns below their imposed loads. The asymmetry of the remaining support with respect to the CG of the upper portions induced enough rotation such that the unrestrained column ends which were 4' above the slab level slipped out of alignment and facilitated an almost unimpeded descent delivering the threshold ROOSD mass. The pre release movements indicate in no uncertain terms that there was load redistribution underway inside the core (antenna drop)
There are a list of I believe 42 errors which have been raised about your work.