04-08-2011, 07:04 PM
Thank you, Vasilios, for what to me is a well-reasoned response/argument. I'll comment now on specific elements of your work.
I'm not ready to share this conclusion. I think the overwhelming majority of researchers have named Sponsors -- but the overwhelming minority have shared their conspiracy models. It is difficult for one to differentiate among Mechanics, Facilitators, and Sponsors if one does not work from a conspiracy model that incorporates those categories.
And while I am aware of researchers who have died under -- for the lack of a more precise term -- suspicious circumstances, I think it's just as likely that, if they were hit, the goals were to A) lend false significance to their work and thus mislead the rest of us, and B) to induce what is commonly referred to as a "chilling effect" on the rest of us.
General agreement here. But please keep in mind that the Facilitator level is A) sub-divided, and B) the fertile ground from which False Sponsors are harvested.
As for Lansdale and Harvey, for me the jury remains out. If forced to make a decision, I'd vote for inclusion at the Facilitator level. But don't forget, then as now, American intelligence agencies were factionalized along ideological lines. These people were quite capable of eating their own, and EGL and WKH were ideally suited to be cast in melodramatic Facilitator roles.
Or Ruby was sent in by Facilitators unrelated to Lansky so as to implicate Lansky in particular and OC in general as False Sponsors.
Be careful here. Hunt clearly has had bestowed upon him Sponsor status. I'm not ready either to absolve or indict him for such a role. But Braden, Myers, and other you reference never have been identified as Sponsors.
For the record: While I agree that the shooters given the responsibility to make the kill were the best hunters of humans on the planet AND that individuals linked to OC and the Cuban exile community have been falsely accused of participating on the Mechanic level, I'm not prepared to indict the Pakse Base team as the actual shooters. That being noted, I reiterate that an entity of the sort epitomized by the Pakse team is most likely to have done the fatal and non-fatal shooting.
Perhaps. I'd refer you to The Secret History of the CIA, in which Joseph Trento inadvertantly (my interpretation) provides evidence for supra-national alliances among ostensibly opposing intelligence agencies and officers. While this goes directly to the Facilitator level, it helps sharpen our focus as we grind our way through possible Sponsors. So too does Trento's investigation of John Paisley in Widows direct our attention to these supra-national forces.
Try Thy Will Be Done: Nelson Rockefeller, Evangelism, And the Conquest of the Amazon in the Age of Oil by Gerard Colby with Charlotte Dennet. It will provide great insight into the Rockefeller caste.
Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:I believe most of the respected researchers do not wish to name the sponsors to avoid falling in the trap of being ridiculed and becoming pray of the true sponsors.
I'm not ready to share this conclusion. I think the overwhelming majority of researchers have named Sponsors -- but the overwhelming minority have shared their conspiracy models. It is difficult for one to differentiate among Mechanics, Facilitators, and Sponsors if one does not work from a conspiracy model that incorporates those categories.
And while I am aware of researchers who have died under -- for the lack of a more precise term -- suspicious circumstances, I think it's just as likely that, if they were hit, the goals were to A) lend false significance to their work and thus mislead the rest of us, and B) to induce what is commonly referred to as a "chilling effect" on the rest of us.
Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:[W]e can say that at the facilitators level we have: Allen Dulles, James Jesus Angleton, Curtis LeMay and others from the Pentagon, C.D. Jackson, Henry and Clare Luce, LBJ possibly during the cover up, Helms, Phillips E.H Hunt and Lucien Conein and the Paines. I am not convinced that Lansdale and Wlliam Harvey were involved in it.
General agreement here. But please keep in mind that the Facilitator level is A) sub-divided, and B) the fertile ground from which False Sponsors are harvested.
As for Lansdale and Harvey, for me the jury remains out. If forced to make a decision, I'd vote for inclusion at the Facilitator level. But don't forget, then as now, American intelligence agencies were factionalized along ideological lines. These people were quite capable of eating their own, and EGL and WKH were ideally suited to be cast in melodramatic Facilitator roles.
Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:The Lansky syndicate and Ruby were responsible for killing Oswald either because they were part of the plot or because they wanted to silence him regarding anti-Castro assassination plots.
Or Ruby was sent in by Facilitators unrelated to Lansky so as to implicate Lansky in particular and OC in general as False Sponsors.
Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:I would name H.L.Hunt, Jim Braden, Lawrence Myers and the Mafia Cabana meeting as false sponsors[.]
Be careful here. Hunt clearly has had bestowed upon him Sponsor status. I'm not ready either to absolve or indict him for such a role. But Braden, Myers, and other you reference never have been identified as Sponsors.
Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:I don't think the shooters were members of the Mafia or Cuban exiles, but i would agree with Charles on the far east connection, Laos and Vietnam.
For the record: While I agree that the shooters given the responsibility to make the kill were the best hunters of humans on the planet AND that individuals linked to OC and the Cuban exile community have been falsely accused of participating on the Mechanic level, I'm not prepared to indict the Pakse Base team as the actual shooters. That being noted, I reiterate that an entity of the sort epitomized by the Pakse team is most likely to have done the fatal and non-fatal shooting.
Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:The best books regarding the true sponsors are Donald Gibson's "Battling Wall Street and The Kennedy assassination cover-up".
Perhaps. I'd refer you to The Secret History of the CIA, in which Joseph Trento inadvertantly (my interpretation) provides evidence for supra-national alliances among ostensibly opposing intelligence agencies and officers. While this goes directly to the Facilitator level, it helps sharpen our focus as we grind our way through possible Sponsors. So too does Trento's investigation of John Paisley in Widows direct our attention to these supra-national forces.
Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:When we are talking about supra-national sponsors my mind would go to people like the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds, the Oppenheimers etc., but it will be a guess no concrete evidence to back it up.
Try Thy Will Be Done: Nelson Rockefeller, Evangelism, And the Conquest of the Amazon in the Age of Oil by Gerard Colby with Charlotte Dennet. It will provide great insight into the Rockefeller caste.
Charles Drago
Co-Founder, Deep Politics Forum
If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence: He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave.
-- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods
You can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity.
-- Graham Greene
Co-Founder, Deep Politics Forum
If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence: He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave.
-- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods
You can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity.
-- Graham Greene