14-06-2011, 09:55 PM
Seamus - thank you for linking your Farrell article on DPF. It contains many good things - not least of which is your analysis of the sources cited by Farrell. Like you, I find the notion that LBJ was a "mastermind" or key sponsor of the JFK assassination truly risible.
So, for me, Farrell's core hypothesis - assuming he believes it - fails so dismally that I shan't waste words or breath on it. Many knowledgable researchers have destroyed the "LBJ did it" argument elsewhere on DPF. (Search and ye shall find.)
Except it appears that Farrell doesn't agree with the "LBJ did it" hypothesis.
Seamus writes:
So, why did Farrell bother writing the thing?
Let's scrap that question. I doubt the answer is revealing.
I am tempted to call Farrell's "coalescence of interests" book a Bouillabaisse, but I am sure that would be an insult to generations of Provençal sauciers....
I will instead pick out certain elements of Seamus' piece in the hope that we can tease out objects of interest and intrigue.
Firstly, Seamus writes, regarding the "Three Tramps":
One of the sources of the idea of Masonic symbolism in the assassination of JFK is James Shelby Downard. See here. Downard was promoted by Feral House and "Adam Parfrey" - which is where I first saw his work. Downard appears to have known a lot about Ku Klux Klan ritual beliefs, and is usually regarded as a sworn enemy of the KKK.
Fundamentally, Downard is a spider spinning a web of occult glistening gossamer. His essays on JFK contain as little factual veracity as English auteur Angela Carter's bold literary exploration of the Manson family.
In short, the ontological plane on which Downard operates does not recognize the concept of factual authentication.
Secondly, Seamus writes, citing Jim DiEugenio, of Clay Shaw and Torbitt:
The importance of this is that it establishes a rationale for Torbitt as a disinformation work: namely to cleanse Clay Shaw and CMC/Permindex of CIA connections.
That is not to say that the organisation known as the CIA assassinated JFK. Rather it is to argue that individuals and elements with CIA connections were involved in the assassination at multiple levels.
Just as individuals and elements with CIA connections were involved in Permindex/CMC.
And Permindex/CMC appears to link to Gladio.
Seamus writes:
The Flammonde analysis of Permindex/CMC is well worth reading in its entirety at the link kindly provided.
Flammonde is sketching out Gladio structures 20 years before the operation was officially exposed. Protection of Gladio structures from exposure and investigation would have been vitally important to the operation's sponsors.
Torbitt first appeared a year or so after Flammonde.
Gladio survived the 60s, 70s and 80s as an active, deadly, unknown, covert operation.
So, tentatively, Torbitt may have achieved part of its purpose.
This chronology provides a further potential rationale for Torbitt as nugget-rich disinformation - designed to draw attention away from Permindex/CMC's true importance into carefully chosen blind alleys.
Seamus continues:
Martin Cannon's article on Gemstone is indeed a classic of its kind.
Seamus - I've also had (largely constructive) dealings with Mr Cannon. Can you expand on why you term him "a divisive figure"?
Seamus continues:
Seamus - please can you expand on the paragraph above. I'm not clear quite what you're arguing. Thanks.
I will end with a rhetorical question: if LBJ is removed from the title of the book, leaving The Conspiracy to Kill Kennedy: A Coalescence of Interests is the title alone salvageable?......
:pinkelephant:
So, for me, Farrell's core hypothesis - assuming he believes it - fails so dismally that I shan't waste words or breath on it. Many knowledgable researchers have destroyed the "LBJ did it" argument elsewhere on DPF. (Search and ye shall find.)
Except it appears that Farrell doesn't agree with the "LBJ did it" hypothesis.
Seamus writes:
Quote:During the length of the book, Farrell gradually adds the names of the organizations involved, slowly building up to a crescendo on page 203. The list has their involvement coming in at 3 differing levels 1.) executing the murder 2.) framing Oswald and 3.) being in charge of the overall cover up. Borrowing heavily from the long discredited Torbitt Document (discussed in Part II of this review) he names the following suspects in these categories:
Anti Castro Cubans, Mafia, FBI, CIA, Big Oil, Military, Bankers (Federal Reserve), Nazis, Masons.
Now, recall, this book is supposed to be about Johnson's role as a kingpin' in the plot. Hence its title. The problem is that by the end of the book it seems that Johnson is in fact superseded in importance by the three main groups who organized the crime the Mafia, Big Oil and Nazis at least that's what I can make out. It's actually really hard to discern what the hell is going on. And it's even more confusing because Zirbel didn't say jack about any of these guys being involved. Indeed he went out of his way to deny and make excuses (some concerning the Mob were surprisingly feasible), as to why they were not. This is a very telling paradox about this book.
(snip)
This summary overview of The Texas Connection renders Farrell's claims of Zirbel being a guiding light to his thesis pretty much fatuous. As one can see above, at least 90% of what Zirbel said is clearly disagreed with by Farrell, not agreed with by him. Furthermore, it's clear that Zirbel isn't the book's main source of content. If you check the footnotes, Farrell's book owes a huge debt of gratitude to Jim Marrs' book Crossfire. Farrell, for want of a better word, simply condensed large tracts of Marrs and spiced that up with authors like David Lifton and Harrison Livingstone to make it appear that he didn't just rip of the book itself.
So, why did Farrell bother writing the thing?
Let's scrap that question. I doubt the answer is revealing.
I am tempted to call Farrell's "coalescence of interests" book a Bouillabaisse, but I am sure that would be an insult to generations of Provençal sauciers....
I will instead pick out certain elements of Seamus' piece in the hope that we can tease out objects of interest and intrigue.
Firstly, Seamus writes, regarding the "Three Tramps":
Quote:Their real identities are (drum roll please): Jubelo, Jubela and Jubelum. (I guess it's more exciting than Moe, Curly and Larry). Why? Because Dealey Plaza was selected, not because of it being an excellent place to stage a killing of a head of state (there's too much common sense in that equation). It's because the convergence of the three roads in Dealey Plaza construct a trident, an important Masonic symbol.
One of the sources of the idea of Masonic symbolism in the assassination of JFK is James Shelby Downard. See here. Downard was promoted by Feral House and "Adam Parfrey" - which is where I first saw his work. Downard appears to have known a lot about Ku Klux Klan ritual beliefs, and is usually regarded as a sworn enemy of the KKK.
Fundamentally, Downard is a spider spinning a web of occult glistening gossamer. His essays on JFK contain as little factual veracity as English auteur Angela Carter's bold literary exploration of the Manson family.
In short, the ontological plane on which Downard operates does not recognize the concept of factual authentication.
Secondly, Seamus writes, citing Jim DiEugenio, of Clay Shaw and Torbitt:
Quote:As has been discussed, DiEugenio also gave an in-depth address at JFK Lancer concerning the use of bad revisionist histories in November 2010
(http://justiceforkennedy.blogspot.com/se...-results=5)
and touched on a number of issues, such as Torbitt's denial of Shaw's ties to the Central Intelligence Agency:
"I came to the same conclusion I did with Farewell America, that it was pure bunk. That it was pure disinformation, except it was a different form of disinformation. If you closely examine the Torbitt essay you will notice something quite odd: it accuses everybody and their mother of being involved in the Kennedy assassination, the Pentagon, the Mafia, the FBI, the DIA, something called DISC, which is not a CD, LBJ, Texas millionaires\billionaires everybody, except the CIA. Everybody except the CIA is in this document! So, in fact, when it does discuss somebody who is a CIA agent, like Clay Shaw, it doesn't call him a CIA agent. It calls him a military intelligence agent. Which was true, but only for four years. After Shaw got out of the military he became a CIA agent for a long, long time."
The importance of this is that it establishes a rationale for Torbitt as a disinformation work: namely to cleanse Clay Shaw and CMC/Permindex of CIA connections.
That is not to say that the organisation known as the CIA assassinated JFK. Rather it is to argue that individuals and elements with CIA connections were involved in the assassination at multiple levels.
Just as individuals and elements with CIA connections were involved in Permindex/CMC.
And Permindex/CMC appears to link to Gladio.
Seamus writes:
Quote:There does appear to be some evidence that Shaw (despite his liberal façade) was himself sympathetic to fascist politics. And Permindex was clearly one of many groups throughout Europe that was a probable cover for the sinister antics surrounding Operation Gladio, which came above board in 1990 via independent European investigations. Permindex certainly did have ties to various right wing groups including former Nazi intelligence operatives. If the BBC ever had a finest moment, it's screening of this amazing Gladio documentary which broke the story worldwide, would take the cake. (http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=16921).
Paris Flammonde, author of fine 1969 book The Kennedy Conspiracy, was the individual responsible for the first in-depth look into Permindex from an American perspective. Flammonde methodically associated the company and its offsider', the CMC, and their many mysteries under the shadow of the Central Intelligence Agency. (http://www.maebrussell.com/Articles%20an...iracy.html).
Flammonde's measured research was in stark contrast to a batch of papers that began circulating in 1970 entitled The Nomenclature of an Assassination Cabal, more commonly know as The Torbitt Document.
The Flammonde analysis of Permindex/CMC is well worth reading in its entirety at the link kindly provided.
Flammonde is sketching out Gladio structures 20 years before the operation was officially exposed. Protection of Gladio structures from exposure and investigation would have been vitally important to the operation's sponsors.
Torbitt first appeared a year or so after Flammonde.
Gladio survived the 60s, 70s and 80s as an active, deadly, unknown, covert operation.
So, tentatively, Torbitt may have achieved part of its purpose.
This chronology provides a further potential rationale for Torbitt as nugget-rich disinformation - designed to draw attention away from Permindex/CMC's true importance into carefully chosen blind alleys.
Seamus continues:
Quote:And though Martin Cannon was a divisive figure in his time, I'd take his breakdown of the documents over any endorsement from Farrell's editor and Gemstone' devotee Childress's. (http://www.newsmakingnews.com/mcgemstone...atlast.htm)
Martin Cannon's article on Gemstone is indeed a classic of its kind.
Seamus - I've also had (largely constructive) dealings with Mr Cannon. Can you expand on why you term him "a divisive figure"?
Seamus continues:
Quote:Let's see what no originals and multiple versions of a document can mean for credibility. Farrell has been digging himself a hole since the first sentence of his epic literary failure. He hits paydirt at the bottom of page 158. There he states that Kenn Thomas had meticulously assembled the only complete version of the Torbitt Document available. Ten pages later, in the footnotes on page 168, Farrell then brags that the Torbitt Document was correct; there was indeed a pro-German stay behind group being run by NATO. Farrell and Childress are either extremely gullible or in on the con themselves. Thomas's book, predictably called NASA, Nazis and JFK: The Torbitt Document and the JFK Assassination, came out in 1996. The aforementioned Operation Gladio, in which the CIA and NATO were revealed as being heavily involved in Cold War European stay behind fascist groups since the end of WWII, first became public in 1992. In fact, Gladio is mentioned in Jim DiEugenio's book of that year, Destiny Betrayed. (See page 372)
Seamus - please can you expand on the paragraph above. I'm not clear quite what you're arguing. Thanks.
I will end with a rhetorical question: if LBJ is removed from the title of the book, leaving The Conspiracy to Kill Kennedy: A Coalescence of Interests is the title alone salvageable?......
:pinkelephant:
"It means this War was never political at all, the politics was all theatre, all just to keep the people distracted...."
"Proverbs for Paranoids 4: You hide, They seek."
"They are in Love. Fuck the War."
Gravity's Rainbow, Thomas Pynchon
"Ccollanan Pachacamac ricuy auccacunac yahuarniy hichascancuta."
The last words of the last Inka, Tupac Amaru, led to the gallows by men of god & dogs of war
"Proverbs for Paranoids 4: You hide, They seek."
"They are in Love. Fuck the War."
Gravity's Rainbow, Thomas Pynchon
"Ccollanan Pachacamac ricuy auccacunac yahuarniy hichascancuta."
The last words of the last Inka, Tupac Amaru, led to the gallows by men of god & dogs of war

