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+--- Thread: Swiss Bank on the USA (/thread-2064.html)
Swiss Bank on the USA - David Butler - 02-09-2009
Hope the link works....Interesting read I thought
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/Wegelin%20Document%20on%20American%20Taxes%20and%20Assets.pdf
Swiss Bank on the USA - David Guyatt - 03-09-2009
David Butler Wrote:Hope the link works....Interesting read I thought
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/Wegelin%20Document%20on%20American%20Taxes%20and%20Assets.pdf
Thanks for that David. The tax system has come a long way in a few hundred years. When the US Republic was founded tax was raised entirely from excise and customs tariffs/duties.
But give a ruler enough time and they will without reserve make a grab for your money.
I personally favour a tax distribution system that is aimed to benefit society as a whole. I do not favour a tax system that is used as a "dipping" purse by big business, greedy and corrupt pols., or the arms companies. Which, I suppose makes me an idealist and not very sensible in the scheme of things.
But I can't help but smile a little at how the very wealthy, who have historically benefited from enormous tax breaks - to the dismay of the low paid who have to carry the burden - have been betrayed by the Swiss.
Perfidious Helvetia....
Swiss Bank on the USA - Peter Presland - 03-09-2009
David Butler Wrote:Hope the link works....Interesting read I thoughtThanks for posting that David. Don't know how I missed it but I agree, it is definitely worth studying.
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/Wegelin%20Document%20on%20American%20Taxes%20and%20Assets.pdf
Some observations:
It is an advisory letter from Switzerland's oldest private bank advising its clients to 'exit from all direct investment in US securities'. Not primarily because of valuation and potential performance issue; rather because of the risks of becoming classified as 'a US person'.
It is essentially divided into two parts. Part one takes a bit of getting into. Initially I found it misleading in terms of where I thought it was headed - but it gets better and better with some very surprising revelations. If I had to compress the first half of the paper into just one sentence it would go something like this:
The US authorities are determined to increase their tax take by making access to US capital markets conditional upon a raft of intrusive measures aimed at ANYONE owning 'US assets' anywhere in the world and largely through the legal construct of 'US Person' - Watch out, buy shares in IBM and you could find yourself designated a 'US Person' involving major potential liabilities and no benefits whatsoever other than said access - if that can really be described as a benefit at all these days.
The second part deals with the other side of the balance sheet so to speak - ie 'access to US capital markets' which it finds of very questionable value. It is essentially an analysis of US government debt and forward liabilities, most of which is already pretty familiar territory. It argues - persuasively in my view - that the measures being taken to increase the tax take on foreign held securities will make it more difficult (as if it were not already pretty well impossible) for the US Treasury to finance its liabilities and that any increased tax take will be dwarfed by the the additional financing costs it precipitates.
Like David G, I am no fan of the Swiss - bankers to the Uber-wealthy - but, IMHO there will be many foreign banks taking exactly the same view and, in light of the papers speculation about US aggression over these issues, together with all manner of other ominous signs, I am becoming more and more nervous about what may unfold over the next few months.
BTW - welcome back David G.
Swiss Bank on the USA - David Guyatt - 03-09-2009
Peter Presland Wrote:BTW - welcome back David G.
Thanks Peter. It's good to be back. All I have to do now is squeeze the remaining dregs of Adnams Bitter out of my system and I'll be okay.:beerglass:
Swiss Bank on the USA - Jan Klimkowski - 03-09-2009
Peter Presland Wrote:The US authorities are determined to increase their tax take by making access to US capital markets conditional upon a raft of intrusive measures aimed at ANYONE owning 'US assets' anywhere in the world and largely through the legal construct of 'US Person' - Watch out, buy shares in IBM and you could find yourself designated a 'US Person' involving major potential liabilities and no benefits whatsoever other than said access - if that can really be described as a benefit at all these days.
The second part deals with the other side of the balance sheet so to speak - ie 'access to US capital markets' which it finds of very questionable value. It is essentially an analysis of US government debt and forward liabilities, most of which is already pretty familiar territory. It argues - persuasively in my view - that the measures being taken to increase the tax take on foreign held securities will make it more difficult (as if it were not already pretty well impossible) for the US Treasury to finance its liabilities and that any increased tax take will be dwarfed by the the additional financing costs it precipitates.
Certain words and phrases come to mind, in a stream of consciousness fashion:
Imperial overrearch.
Hubris. Nemesis.
"US person" = the opposite of an "unperson", in the Orwellian sense.
However, if "US person" means you get taxed by The Empire, then Swiss bankers recommend you become an "unperson"....
Peter Presland Wrote:BTW - welcome back David G.
Yup. :hello: