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+--- Thread: TSBD Doorway man - Oswald or Lovelady? (/thread-8626.html)
TSBD Doorway man - Oswald or Lovelady? - Albert Doyle - 27-01-2012
Charles Drago Wrote:(1) All you have demonstrated is that Doorway Man is wearing a shirt that is all but identical to LHO's arrest shirt.
Not even close. You are giving way too much there Charles. I'm afraid this is the result of persons preferring a position where they don't analyze the details of the claims. We 'debated' "Dr Cinque" over on Lancer and he came nowhere close to "demonstrating" the shirt seen on Doorway Man was Oswald's. When it came down to it all there was was "Dr Cinque" referring to things that cannot be seen in the fuzzy pictures he cites. In the end what you give credit for being "demonstrated" is simply "Dr Cinque" telling us those things are there when clearly he has no right to because they simply aren't visible. Dr Cinque is a world-class quack who can't show us the things he claims he sees. Giving him credit this way is a travesty beyond belief!
The shirt seen on Lovelady in the isolated color film frame where he is standing off to the side is clearly the same shirt seen on Doorway Man. It has the same box plaid pattern and the exact same color signature as seen in the posed shot. Of the four critical pieces of evidence Fetzer shows we have 1) Lovelady standing in the black & white Altgens-6 photo in the plaid shirt with the identifiable box plaid pattern 2) Lovelady in the color film frame in this same shirt showing the color signature of that shirt, and, more importantly, showing the white t-shirt exposed exactly like that on Doorway Man. 3) Lovelady standing in a posed shot in this box plaid shirt showing the same color signature. 4) And, finally, Lovelady posing in a striped pattern short-sleeved shirt.
It doesn't take a genius to figure-out which 3 of these perfectly match and which one is the odd one out. To say this was "demonstrated" is to give credit to "Dr Cinque's" rubbish (in my opinion). You might as well throw-in the Vincennes at that point as well...
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TSBD Doorway man - Oswald or Lovelady? - Albert Doyle - 27-01-2012
Greg Burnham Wrote:[ATTACH=CONFIG]3541[/ATTACH]
According to Lifton, this shows Lovelady (and his shirt) at about 2:00 sitting in a chair while Oswald is being marched past him in DPD headquarters. Say thank you.
No use Greg. Dr Fetzer is through the looking glass and arguing with you by means of a magical Fetzerian kingdom where you can show irrefutable proof of Lovelady wearing that shirt, but it won't matter because Fetzer will ignore it and then return with a lecturing long post of bs telling you you've failed to live-up to his standard. Then later, even though we have clear, irrefutable proof Lovelady was wearing this shirt, we'll have Fetzer dishonestly suggesting Lovelady was wearing the striped pattern shirt.
This is otherwise known as being out of touch with reality (as in the case of the Vincennes).
TSBD Doorway man - Oswald or Lovelady? - Jan Klimkowski - 27-01-2012
James H. Fetzer Wrote:Where are your arguments, Jan? What do we have wrong? Show us what we have wrong, OK?
There are so many cute remarks here and so little intelligent thought. What happened to DPF?
Jan Klimkowski Wrote:The White Queen only believed six impossible things before breakfast...
For the avoidance of doubt, this is directed at the Emeritus Professor and his snake oil salesman sidekick.
Prof Fetzer - Albert, Greg, Charles and others have posted plenty of reasons why your and Cinque's interpretation of the imagery is unproven. Indeed, I will go further - it is highly dubious.
My objection is more fundamental. You and Cinque are reading Altgens 6 as an Aleph. You are ignoring its tangled genesis and you are placing an interpretration on a piece of evidence which that evidence is incapable of sustaining.
Altgens 6 is not a Magic Bullet that solves this case.
Betting the house on a piece of evidence so ambiguous and dubious is a gift for those who continue to cover up the crime.
It is a gift for all those who want to write us off with the ultimate elite-sanctioned slur: "conspiracy theorist" - usually combined by MSM with "irrational", "lacking rigour", "sloppy" and "fool".
Evidence needs to be critically evaluated in all its facets, and once a realistic appraisal of the quality of an individual piece has been reached, that evidence should not be over-interpreted.
Altgens 6 simply will not bear the weight that you and Cinque attribute to it.
Meanwhile, in another thread here, I asked you the following question to which I do not believe you have replied yet:
Jan Klimkowski Wrote:Quote:CD's question: "Do you accept the so-called 'confession' of E. Howard Hunt as a completely truthful statement made without hidden agendas to deceive and disinform?"
JF's answer: "It was basically truthful, of course, since he was unburdening his conscience to his son as he was approaching death."
Jim - having analyzed all that is known about E Howard Hunt - his life, his known actions, his extensive fictional forays, his ruthlessness - is this your considered, informed, position on his 'confession'?
NB Prof Fetzer's answer is longer, and can be seen in this thread, but the above is the first sentence of his response to the question.
TSBD Doorway man - Oswald or Lovelady? - Vasilios Vazakas - 27-01-2012
Here we go again. Stuck in the hamster's wheel. Proving C.D. Jackson, Angleton and Dulles right.
That their disinformation efforts will endure time. That we'll keep discussing small irrelevant things until they wear us down. They'll be laughing at us from far above.
TSBD Doorway man - Oswald or Lovelady? - Greg Burnham - 27-01-2012
Fletcher Prouty excerpt:
"It's like you stand on a stack of bibles, Chuck Colson and Howard Hunt tried to rewrite the stack of bibles to prove that is was Kennedy that said shoot [Diem], but nobody in Washington said shoot Diem, you don't do an assassination that way. The way people are assassinated is by taking away the power that had been created to keep them there. It's a lot easier that way. Of more interest to me than a genealogy of Lee Harvey Oswald and all the rest is, who said, "Lets go to Dallas Jack."? --I understand that Kenny O'Donnell feels real bad about it. I understand that Bobby Kennedy's said from time to time he wished he'd have put his foot down about it. Gerry Bruno, the greatest advance man in politics went there, but did Gerry Bruno pick the route? Maybe Mark can tell you who did. Who decided let's go to Dallas? "You've been to Fort Worth, you've got to go to Dallas." That's important because whoever decided that knew some things. I have worked with the Secret Service in their good work to keep presidents alive. I went to Mexico City when Eisenhower was going down there in 1956 and I'll tell you, the Secret Service knows the game, just like the guerrillas in France knew the game. They can keep the President alive. Where were they?
"How does it happen you can have a six story building with a lot of empty floors. They never wired or sealed the doors as their manual says they will; nor had anybody on the roof with high powered guns and with radios as their manual says they will; or had a man in Dealey Plaza to look at the man on the roof and to look at the windows as their manual says they will. If you don't drive over 44 mph, a nice figure but it works out in tests, why did they bring that car down to a crawling speed. Those are more important to me than a genealogy of Lee Harvey Oswald or anybody else on the grassy knoll. I think I'll stop there. That's what I call the anatomy of assassinations. It gets you thinking, you know." [emphasis added]
"How does it happen you can have a six story building with a lot of empty floors. They never wired or sealed the doors as their manual says they will; nor had anybody on the roof with high powered guns and with radios as their manual says they will; or had a man in Dealey Plaza to look at the man on the roof and to look at the windows as their manual says they will. If you don't drive over 44 mph, a nice figure but it works out in tests, why did they bring that car down to a crawling speed. Those are more important to me than a genealogy of Lee Harvey Oswald or anybody else on the grassy knoll. I think I'll stop there. That's what I call the anatomy of assassinations. It gets you thinking, you know." [emphasis added]
TSBD Doorway man - Oswald or Lovelady? - Lauren Johnson - 27-01-2012
Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:Here we go again. Stuck in the hamster's wheel. Proving C.D. Jackson, Angleton and Dulles right.
That their disinformation efforts will endure time. That we'll keep discussing small irrelevant things until they wear us down. They'll be laughing at us from far above.
The best thing to do is to quit running like the hamster and walk away from the wheel.
I realize it is painful to see a friend and colleague in decline, but you should not provide the means for that person to demonstrate it further unless that is your goal. Just STFU. (Ohh, not you VV. I am in full agreement with your comment. I am just drawing the logical conclusion.)
TSBD Doorway man - Oswald or Lovelady? - Phil Dragoo - 27-01-2012
[ATTACH=CONFIG]3543[/ATTACH]
From page 166 of Terry Reed and John Cummings, Compromised: Clinton, Bush and the CIA, SPI/Shapolsky, 1994:
That's where he first heard Ward say to a young, eager banker: "There's a big difference between horsepower and horse ____. Are you in or out? It's time to belly up to the bar, son."
Oliver North and Operation Donation, Barry Seal, Lasater, all the characters moving through the shadows, and Webb's father-in-law uses his marker.
There's a plaid shirt; Lovelady in the doorway. There's a subdued shirt; Oswald seen in the lunchroom.
There's no room for bullshirt.
TSBD Doorway man - Oswald or Lovelady? - Seamus Coogan - 27-01-2012
Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:Here we go again. Stuck in the hamster's wheel. Proving C.D. Jackson, Angleton and Dulles right.
That their disinformation efforts will endure time. That we'll keep discussing small irrelevant things until they wear us down. They'll be laughing at us from far above.
Well said Vas.
TSBD Doorway man - Oswald or Lovelady? - Seamus Coogan - 27-01-2012
Phil Dragoo Wrote:[ATTACH=CONFIG]3543[/ATTACH]
From page 166 of Terry Reed and John Cummings, Compromised: Clinton, Bush and the CIA, SPI/Shapolsky, 1994:
That's where he first heard Ward say to a young, eager banker: "There's a big difference between horsepower and horse ____. Are you in or out? It's time to belly up to the bar, son."
Oliver North and Operation Donation, Barry Seal, Lasater, all the characters moving through the shadows, and Webb's father-in-law uses his marker.
There's a plaid shirt; Lovelady in the doorway. There's a subdued shirt; Oswald seen in the lunchroom.
There's no room for bullshirt.
Hahahahahaha Bullshirt! Yes Phil we should call it the Bullshirt saga!
TSBD Doorway man - Oswald or Lovelady? - Charles Drago - 28-01-2012
"I don't think Barry Seal is dead." -- Mary Ferrell (to George Michael Evica and me, one night, in a dead presidential suite, in Dallas, a thousand years ago).