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2 Japanese carrying $134 bil worth of U.S. bonds detained in Italy - Printable Version

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2 Japanese carrying $134 bil worth of U.S. bonds detained in Italy - Jan Klimkowski - 21-06-2009

One tiny footnote. If the two men arrested in possession of the debt instruments have indeed now been released, along with their "bonds", then there's one pretty straightforward explanation as to why.

They had diplomatic immunity.

If they had diplomatic immunity, then that increases the chances of the instruments being genuine and part of some massive geopolitical hustle involving currency and national debt.

2 Japanese carrying $134 bil worth of U.S. bonds detained in Italy - Magda Hassan - 22-06-2009

Excellent point Jan. Has to be that really doesn't it?

2 Japanese carrying $134 bil worth of U.S. bonds detained in Italy - David Guyatt - 22-06-2009

Jan Klimkowski Wrote:A few thoughts:

i) Turner Radio Network is the mouthpiece of white supremacist Hal Turner. Imo it's a disinformation front, and has previously been discussed here:

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=911

ii) Karl Denninger is a smart guy. However, I go to his site for interesting insights and viewpoints (from all sides of the spectrum) on economics and financial markets - as many of the posters are either very knowledgable traders or disgruntled, highly placed, insiders. I don't have any interest in the geopolitical viewpoints expressed there. And most Ticker Forumites would regard DPF as, to use their preferred phrase, tinfoil;

iii) David G's perspective is, of course, very well informed. Let's assume for a moment that "these (instruments) are bona fide but secret securities/obligations". Let's also assume that these instruments were "owned" by certain Japanese financial elements - some combination perhaps of Bank of Japan, Japanese govt, and mob.

Why would they have been taking these instruments to Switzerland?

And if the assumption that the intention was to be caught by Italian border guards is correct, what was the purpose of this?

Jan, you've taken the words out of my mouth. Why Switzerland indeed. Well, one reason may be because it has always been suggested/rumoured that UBS is the "arms length" global manager of these type of sub-rosa securities as they also seem to be for much of the Black Eagle gold.

And if this is the case, then it might be that the Italian's were tipped off ultimately by the US (via deniable third parties) to foil the plans of the holders.

Of course, this is simply putting forward possibilities upon possibilities as we shall never know the full truth of it.

2 Japanese carrying $134 bil worth of U.S. bonds detained in Italy - David Guyatt - 22-06-2009

Quote:David, others, did you see the apparently REAL 1 Billion dollar authenticity paper of purchase [5 pages] from the Treasury to some guy in Singapore I posted above?!?!?!

Pete, yes I took a peak and I suspect they really are fakes. Can't say more than that they had that sort of "feel" to them. Purely a subjective opinion on my part.

2 Japanese carrying $134 bil worth of U.S. bonds detained in Italy - Peter Lemkin - 22-06-2009

David Guyatt Wrote:
Quote:David, others, did you see the apparently REAL 1 Billion dollar authenticity paper of purchase [5 pages] from the Treasury to some guy in Singapore I posted above?!?!?!

Pete, yes I took a peak and I suspect they really are fakes. Can't say more than that they had that sort of "feel" to them. Purely a subjective opinion on my part.

I don't want to divert the thread, but ever heard of this man...how could a Billionaire be invisible? I don't know either way and take your 'feel' seriously. It was apparently offered by the USG to show how they look, but why would they give someone's name and numbers away....?!

The piece of the puzzle that really doesn't fit is that these two clowns took a train and not a flight. Who in the world who travels in circles with such BIG money would not fly first class, if not Leer jet and not have bodyguards. Even IF you want to be caught to make some powerplay, this seems too amateurish. That they were let go tells me they had diplomatic passports or someone HIGH up who could make a phonecall for them...which also asks why they were on a train....not a private plane. This story is SO odd....and like David says, we'll likely never really know...but we sure can speculate!.....
Someone has also told the MSM to stay far away from this! Star

2 Japanese carrying $134 bil worth of U.S. bonds detained in Italy - Ed Jewett - 22-06-2009

Has this multiply-updated series been factored in?
http://cryptogon.com/?p=9095

Is the info valid?

Is the source legit?

As noted elsewhere, it's an ex-pat American in NZ with some expertise in IT, fiscal matters (in the interests of full disclosure, I still can't balance my checkbook), sustainable living, etc. who has multiple sources, 'many visitors', and always interesting stuff to read....

2 Japanese carrying $134 bil worth of U.S. bonds detained in Italy - David Healy - 23-06-2009

David Guyatt Wrote:
Jan Klimkowski Wrote:A few thoughts:

i) Turner Radio Network is the mouthpiece of white supremacist Hal Turner. Imo it's a disinformation front, and has previously been discussed here:

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=911

ii) Karl Denninger is a smart guy. However, I go to his site for interesting insights and viewpoints (from all sides of the spectrum) on economics and financial markets - as many of the posters are either very knowledgable traders or disgruntled, highly placed, insiders. I don't have any interest in the geopolitical viewpoints expressed there. And most Ticker Forumites would regard DPF as, to use their preferred phrase, tinfoil;

iii) David G's perspective is, of course, very well informed. Let's assume for a moment that "these (instruments) are bona fide but secret securities/obligations". Let's also assume that these instruments were "owned" by certain Japanese financial elements - some combination perhaps of Bank of Japan, Japanese govt, and mob.

Why would they have been taking these instruments to Switzerland?

And if the assumption that the intention was to be caught by Italian border guards is correct, what was the purpose of this?

Jan, you've taken the words out of my mouth. Why Switzerland indeed. Well, one reason may be because it has always been suggested/rumoured that UBS is the "arms length" global manager of these type of sub-rosa securities as they also seem to be for much of the Black Eagle gold.

And if this is the case, then it might be that the Italian's were tipped off ultimately by the US (via deniable third parties) to foil the plans of the holders.

Of course, this is simply putting forward possibilities upon possibilities as we shall never know the full truth of it.


Why Switzerland? The original Foreign Bondholders Protection Council was created and worked out of Switzerland (and New York) during, and immediately after the great Pre-WW2 Gold Dollar Bond debacle circa. 1924-1932... addressing particularly (The Dawes Bonds - The (Owen) Young Plan, which replaced it -- German issues), being the two primary issues.... along with hundreds of millions of dollars worth (100+ other bond issues originating through and by Wall Street merchant banks) of "worthless" gold bonds sold to the unsuspecting American public, ALL of which defaulted. This was the very situation that forced the US Congress to create the Security and Exchange Commission in 1933.

FDR then placed Joe Kennedy at the helm of the newly created SEC.

the below:

http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/2/5/1/2/0/pages251202/p251202-1.php

is an interesting paper covering defaulted (private and government) issues and notes... -- up to 2005.

2 Japanese carrying $134 bil worth of U.S. bonds detained in Italy - Richard Welser - 23-06-2009

already have been said ....

But couriers for the BIS have diplomatic immunity.

2 Japanese carrying $134 bil worth of U.S. bonds detained in Italy - Peter Lemkin - 23-06-2009

Richard Welser Wrote:already have been said ....

But couriers for the BIS have diplomatic immunity.

That would be odd, if true - its a bank, not a country....but.?
In the posted url above with contains several versions of a Japanese article on this mater, all the varient translations include a sentence to the effect that the men were released because they didn't bring them to anyone...which simply makes no sense at all. Confusedhot: They were committing a crime if fake, and had to be fined if they were real. Both would take legal process. You try the same, and you'll not be released for a loooooong time - nor will the bonds [as is reported, but not confirmed - and likely never to be]. Still the oddest incident in recent times and the largest denomination case like it - ever! Obviously, we are being lied to as to much of what happened, by whom and why. SNAFU

2 Japanese carrying $134 bil worth of U.S. bonds detained in Italy - Magda Hassan - 23-06-2009

Peter, it is true. Read this bit of history about the BIS:
Quote:Sovereignty and Secrecy

It is not surprising that the BIS, its offices, employees, directors and members share an incredible immunity from virtually all regulation, scrutiny and accountability.

In 1931, central bankers and their constituents were fed up with government meddling in world financial affairs. Politicians were viewed mostly with contempt, unless it was one of their own who was the politician. Thus, the BIS offered them a once-and-for-all opportunity to set up the "apex" the way they really wanted it -- private. They demanded these conditions and got what they demanded.

A quick summary of their immunity, explained further below, includes
  • diplomatic immunity for persons and what they carry with them (i.e., diplomatic pouches)
  • no taxation on any transactions, including salaries paid to employees
  • embassy-type immunity for all buildings and/or offices operated by the BIS
  • no oversight or knowledge of operations by any government authority
  • freedom from immigration restrictions
  • freedom to encrypt any and all communications of any sort
  • m from any legal jurisdiction 9
Further, members of the BIS board of directors (for instance, Alan Greenspan) are individually granted special benefits:
  • “immunity from arrest or imprisonment and immunity from seizure of their personal baggage, save in flagrant cases of criminal offence”
  • “inviolability of all papers and documents”
  • “immunity from jurisdiction, even after their mission has been accomplished, for acts carried out in the discharge of their duties, including words spoken and writings”
  • “exemption for themselves, their spouses and children from any immigration restrictions, from any formalities concerning the registration of aliens and from any obligations relating to national service in Switzerland ”
  • “the right to use codes in official communications or to receive or send documents or correspondence by means of couriers or diplomatic bags” 10
Lastly, all remaining officials and employees of the BIS have the following immunities:
  • “immunity from jurisdiction for acts accomplished in the discharge of their duties, including words spoken and writings, even after such persons have ceased to be Officials of the Bank”
  • “exemption from all Federal, cantonal and communal taxes on salaries, fees and allowances paid to them by the Bank…”
  • exempt from Swiss national obligations, freedom for spouses and family members from immigration restrictions, transfer assets and properties – including internationally – with the same degree of benefit as Officials of other international organizations.11
Of course, a corporate charter can say anything it wants to say and still be subject to outside authorities. Nevertheless, these were the immunities practiced and enjoyed from 1930 onward.
On February 10, 1987, a more formal acknowledgement called the "Headquarters Agreement" was executed between the BIS and the Swiss Federal Council and basically clarified and reiterated what we already knew:
Article 2
 Inviolability
The buildings or parts of buildings and surrounding land which, whoever may be the owner thereof, are used for the purposes of the Bank shall be inviolable. No agent of the Swiss public authorities may enter therein without the express consent of the Bank. Only the President, the General Manager of the Bank, or their duly authorized representative shall be competent to waive such inviolability.

The archives of the Bank and, in general, all documents and any data media belonging to the Bank or in its possession, shall be inviolable at all times and in all places.

The Bank shall exercise supervision of and police power over its premises.
Article 4
Immunity from jurisdiction and execution
The Bank shall enjoy immunity from criminal and administrative jurisdiction, save to the extent that such immunity is formally waived in individual cases by the President, the General Manager of the Bank, or their duly authorized representative.

The assets of the Bank may be subject to measures of compulsory execution for enforcing monetary claims. On the other hand, all deposits entrusted to the Bank, all claims against the Bank and the shares issued by the Bank shall, without the prior agreement of the Bank, be immune from seizure or other measures of compulsory execution and sequestration, particularly of attachment within the meaning of Swiss law. 12
As you can see, the BIS, its directors and employees (past and present) can do virtually anything and everything they want, with complete secrecy, immunity and with no one looking over their shoulders.
It was truly a banker’s dream come true, and it paved the international freeway for the rampant financial globalism that we see manifest today.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_globalbanking04.htm