+- Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora)
+-- Forum: Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: JFK Assassination (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/forum-3.html)
+--- Thread: What is James Chaney Looking Back at? (/thread-12101.html)
What is James Chaney Looking Back at? - LR Trotter - 06-02-2014
In the Altgens photo, and I have never been accused of being an expert at photo analysis, the JFK image has always been hard for me to decipher. If I am seeing a blemish/hole near the rear view mirror, slightly to the driver's left of the mirror, then it is blocking a part of JFK's left ear area. For my view, I believe I am seeing JFK's clinched left fist from the back/top side, and a semi clinched right hand/fist from the palm side. It appears that he is reacting to a throat and/or back wound. But I am troubled by the inconsistent windshield tint as it appears in the photo, as well as what appears to be a somewhat long left arm, if that is what I am seeing. I wish I was positive what part of his face/head I see, but I need some help to comprehend what is visable.
:
:
What is James Chaney Looking Back at? - Albert Doyle - 06-02-2014
Kennedy's pretty much like he's supposed to be. Posturing with his arms raised in the Thorburn position or putting his hands to his throat.
In my opinion Chaney is either looking to the Secret Service men for their response or the other motorcycle cops on the other side.
Altgens said the shot happened just a fraction of a second before he snapped the picture, meaning the crowd didn't have time to react. To suggest otherwise is to drift into the Fetzer mobile photo alteration laboratory theory.
What is James Chaney Looking Back at? - Bob Prudhomme - 06-02-2014
Albert Doyle Wrote:Kennedy's pretty much like he's supposed to be. Posturing with his arms raised in the Thorburn position or putting his hands to his throat.
In my opinion Chaney is either looking to the Secret Service men for their response or the other motorcycle cops on the other side.
Altgens said the shot happened just a fraction of a second before he snapped the picture, meaning the crowd didn't have time to react. To suggest otherwise is to drift into the Fetzer mobile photo alteration laboratory theory.
Hello Albert
Perhaps I did not explain the point I was trying to make with enough detail for you.
It has long been contended that the Altgens 6 photo corresponds directly to frame z255 of the Zapruder film. It has also been established that Abraham Zapruder's camera ran at the speed of 18.3 frames per second meaning, of course, that every 18.3 frames of that film equates to one second of recorded history.
While no one can say with any certainty when the first shot was fired, JFK can be seen reacting to a bullet wound as the limo emerges from behind the Stemmons Freeway sign and it is believed by many researchers that the latest the first shot can be fired is z210. However, many Warren Commission supporters believe there was a missed shot at z190, and some even believe there was a missed shot as early as z160.
Let's see how these various frames work out for time.
255 - 210 = 45 frames, divided by 18.3 = 2.46 seconds
255 - 190 = 65 frames, divided by 18.3 = 3.55 seconds
255 - 160 = 95 frames, divided by 18.3 = 5.19 seconds
While many witnesses described the first shot as a "firecracker" like sound, this is not the sound one would expect to hear from a 6.5mm Carcano M91/38 short rifle. This rifle had a 21 inch barrel and shot ammunition that was designed to be fired from the original M91 long rifle which had a 31 inch barrel; a difference of 10 inches or, in other words, the short rifle barrel was only 2/3 as long as the long rifle barrel. While the effects of this were not quite as pronounced as shooting the Carcano rounds from the Carcano carbines with their 17 inch barrels, there were still pronounced changes that occurred.
The first effect was a very noticeable drop of around 10% in muzzle velocity, from around 2560 feet/second in the M91 long rifle to 2200 fps in the M91/38 short rifle. This was because the gunpowder did not have a chance to fully combust before the bullet left the short rifle barrel.
The second effect was, because gunpowder was still burning as it left the barrel, there was a greater muzzle flash and the sound of the muzzle blast was far greater than one would hear from a M91 long rifle shooting the same ammunition.
Considering that the bystanders we are looking at in this photo are also in a position that places them ahead of the muzzle of a rifle on the 6th floor, the sound of the first shot should have been deafening. While there is no official time for such things as startle reactions, many researchers, in attempting to explain pronounced camera jiggles seen in the Zapruder film, assign 6 frames or about 1/3 second as normal reaction time in humans to loud, startling noises.
If we look again at Altgens 6 and consider the possibility that a very loud rifle has been fired only 20 yards over the heads of these bystanders within 2.5-5 seconds prior to this photo being taken, where is the startle reaction? In my experience with rifles, an unexpected shot going off this close produces instantaneous and very obvious startle reactions.
What is James Chaney Looking Back at? - David Josephs - 06-02-2014
Hi Bob...
I had always wondered that myself... so I did the GIF at the bottom to show it is not possible THAT is his mouth.... but is his right hand by his neck as we see in the Zframe
With regards to Chaney and what he is looking at in Altgens... I don't know how we could possibly know - exactly... did you see the movie VANTAGE POINT?
Gives you an idea of how easy it is to misinterpret what people see in film or photos....
Bob... Over and over we've shown that the Zfilm, it's 18.3 and frame count does NOT work... the timing and frames do not work... the cut to 133 was designed to "line things up", - and potentially hides a shot that we see Hickey reacting to:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5704[/ATTACH]
the "break" at 157, imo, also removes a considerable number of frames - JFK's head swivels like a top in less than 1/18th of a second?
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5705[/ATTACH]
the alteration at 302-303 with Greer's head turn... these are movements that are simply too fast given the frames they occur within...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5706[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5703[/ATTACH]
What is James Chaney Looking Back at? - Bob Prudhomme - 06-02-2014
Hi David
What are your thoughts to the lack of reaction in the bystanders, considering a rifle has been fired 20 yards above there heads 2.5-5 seconds before this photo was taken?
Did you watch the Mary Moorman interview? She told the interviewer that she heard a shot about the time she took her famous Polaroid, a pause and two more shots after that; supporting the FBI diagram you posted of the fatal shot occurring not in front of her but down by the concrete steps.
What is James Chaney Looking Back at? - Albert Doyle - 06-02-2014
The shots that hit could have been fired by WerBell-silenced sniper rifles from many positions. The loud decoy shots from the Depository could have come slightly later, therefore explaining the lack of reaction in the bystanders. There could even be a Mauser shot that hit from the Depository. When you have conspiracy it is very hard to trace the exact shots.
What is James Chaney Looking Back at? - David Josephs - 06-02-2014
Bob Prudhomme Wrote:Hi David
What are your thoughts to the lack of reaction in the bystanders, considering a rifle has been fired 20 yards above there heads 2.5-5 seconds before this photo was taken?
Did you watch the Mary Moorman interview? She told the interview that she heard a shot about the time she took her famous Polaroid, a pause and two more shots after that; supporting the FBI diagram you posted of the fatal shot occurring not in front of her but down by the concrete steps.
Well Bob... I did the Altgens mock-up real quick to show that a variety of people are looking in all sorts of directions.... what they are looking at is anybody's guess... I would like to also have us remember that it was:
Windy
Motorcycle engines are very noisy
Many thought there were fireworks and/or backfires happening which was part of the "parade"
These are excited bystanders not really knowing what to expect at a parade....
One could ask the same questions about HILL... did he not hear what his fellow agents heard? or is he just doing his job watching his assignment?
Those in LBJ's car look like they're having a party, 2-5 seconds after these shots ring out... while Yarborough claims to have seen Arnold "hit the dirt like a good soldier".. he's smiling and laughing....
Jackson seems to be behind the SS men on the left of the Queen Mary
Frame 206 also gives you a good idea of how far back Chaney was... and Z184 gives a small glimpse of Jackson's motorcycle
Finally Bob... I, as you know, believe the recollections of the witnesses within 30 feet of the limo moreso than any of the BS evidence that surfaces down the line...
I believe the FBI had source material that placed shots down by the steps where Altgens and Hudson claim the final shots were fired... and in turn created WCD298 which the FBI Agent who produced the model claims is meticulously accurate....
Is there a single "bystander" who claims to see the Chaney reaction?
And my last thought...
Look at the quality of Altgens 7 compared to the rest of the images... not only is that negative missing, but the top right of the photo has been spliced off (which I added back below)... the people on the bridge are higher up in the photo than the cut-off on the right side... we SHOULD see Chaney in front of the limo at this point... and just look at Alt 6 and 8... crisp, clear, great detail and depth of field....
Any thoughts?
(please click attachments - they show up in the preview but only come thru as links...)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5710[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]5711[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5707[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5708[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]5709[/ATTACH]
What is James Chaney Looking Back at? - LR Trotter - 06-02-2014
Black, white, and gray imaging has sustantial limitations. I have to wonder, as I wander, where this thread could be if Mr Altgens had been able to take color photos at DP on 11/22/63. In the photo, I believe that what appears to be JFK's raised left shoulder is possibly something in the background that causes a height distortion. As for target shots from the rear, I cannot discount the possibility of a sniper, or snipers, in the Dal-Tex Building. JMO.
:
: