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+--- Thread: Rise of the Drones – UAVs After 9/11 (/showthread.php?tid=7908)
Rise of the Drones – UAVs After 9/11 - Peter Lemkin - 17-02-2012
Well, that is amazing engineering and micro-technology...but again, I fear what it will be used for. There are good uses of such micro-technology [medicine, rescue and scientific exploration in confined spaces, for examples] - and while they are being pursued as well, the military and intelligence use seems to be predominant. I'd like to see the military and intelligence use outlawed for any offensive actions or spying except as an absolute last measure in defense. I'm sure that won't happen. It seems humanity is doomed by its own technology - first to totalitarianism and then to extermination....unless we undergo a massive and 180 degree paradigm shift.
Rise of the Drones – UAVs After 9/11 - Lauren Johnson - 17-02-2012
Peter Lemkin Wrote:Well, that is amazing engineering and micro-technology...but again, I fear what it will be used for. There are good uses of such micro-technology [medicine, rescue and scientific exploration in confined spaces, for examples] - and while they are being pursued as well, the military and intelligence use seems to be predominant. I'd like to see the military and intelligence use outlawed for any offensive actions or spying except as an absolute last measure in defense. I'm sure that won't happen. It seems humanity is doomed by its own technology - first to totalitarianism and then to extermination....unless we undergo a massive and 180 degree paradigm shift.
Totally agree. Ed has been posting John Robb's stuff here as of late. I have been spending time at JR's website and am on his tweet list. JR referenced two books: Daemon and Freedom[SUP]TM[/SUP] by Daniel Suarez. They are amazing, quick reads. You talk about a 180 paradigm shift: Suarez is writing about how that might look. I would recommend reading them ASAP. Here is a link to a Suarez talk on bot mediated reality that is, well ... just watch it.
http://fora.tv/2008/08/08/Daniel_Suarez_Daemon_Bot-Mediated_Reality
Rise of the Drones – UAVs After 9/11 - Peter Lemkin - 17-02-2012
Lauren Johnson Wrote:Peter Lemkin Wrote:Well, that is amazing engineering and micro-technology...but again, I fear what it will be used for. There are good uses of such micro-technology [medicine, rescue and scientific exploration in confined spaces, for examples] - and while they are being pursued as well, the military and intelligence use seems to be predominant. I'd like to see the military and intelligence use outlawed for any offensive actions or spying except as an absolute last measure in defense. I'm sure that won't happen. It seems humanity is doomed by its own technology - first to totalitarianism and then to extermination....unless we undergo a massive and 180 degree paradigm shift.
Totally agree. Ed has been posting John Robb's stuff here as of late. I have been spending time at JR's website and am on his tweet list. JR referenced two books: Daemon and Freedom[SUP]TM[/SUP] by Daniel Suarez. They are amazing, quick reads. You talk about a 180 paradigm shift: Suarez is writing about how that might look. I would recommend reading them ASAP. Here is a link to a Suarez talk on bot mediated reality that is, well ... just watch it.
http://fora.tv/2008/08/08/Daniel_Suarez_Daemon_Bot-Mediated_Reality
Hmmm....disturbing talk....with the software bots and the hardware drones......bye bye privacy and humanity :wavey:
Rise of the Drones – UAVs After 9/11 - Ed Jewett - 17-02-2012
I am glad someone else is reading John Robb's site(s), though I'm not sure how to take his latest "get your own drone before they outlaw them" post. I found Robb because he is the keeper of the OODA archives. I find him to be insightful and illuminating (and occasionally alarming) with regard to his musings on 4GW or open-source warfare, but I'm really interested in what he has to say about "resilience".
Rise of the Drones – UAVs After 9/11 - Lauren Johnson - 18-02-2012
Ed Jewett Wrote:I am glad someone else is reading John Robb's site(s), though I'm not sure how to take his latest "get your own drone before they outlaw them" post. I found Robb because he is the keeper of the OODA archives. I find him to be insightful and illuminating (and occasionally alarming) with regard to his musings on 4GW or open-source warfare, but I'm really interested in what he has to say about "resilience".
I interpreted this as his techno nerdy side wanting to play with these cool toys before they become illegal.
Have you read Daemon, etc?
Rise of the Drones – UAVs After 9/11 - Ed Jewett - 18-02-2012
Lauren Johnson Wrote:Ed Jewett Wrote:I am glad someone else is reading John Robb's site(s), though I'm not sure how to take his latest "get your own drone before they outlaw them" post. I found Robb because he is the keeper of the OODA archives. I find him to be insightful and illuminating (and occasionally alarming) with regard to his musings on 4GW or open-source warfare, but I'm really interested in what he has to say about "resilience".
I interpreted this as his techno nerdy side wanting to play with these cool toys before they become illegal.
Have you read Daemon, etc?
No, but I got deep into the video you posted of Suarez (and shared it with others) before I had to break to make dinner. Thank you; it's quite chilling (the video, not the dinner). And I suspect you are right about Robb. But it portends, at a time when some are intent on banning handguns and assault rifles, a different kind of "second amendment" debate. And Robb is among those whose interests and expertise are in insurgencies.
Rise of the Drones – UAVs After 9/11 - Peter Lemkin - 18-02-2012
Well, just imagine a micro-drone or bot that could look at the denied files in the intelligence agencies - or watch what black ops types talk about and do!...the mind wanders....the mouth waters. :joystick:
Rise of the Drones – UAVs After 9/11 - Ed Jewett - 19-02-2012
Mind-controlled drones a Pandora's box 07.02.12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOYKz87rTAs&feature=related
Uploaded by BritishForcesNews on Feb 8, 2012
Drones guided by thought control raise the possibility of machines instead of men being blamed for military accidents and war crimes, a leading scientist warned today.
Fast-moving advances in neuroscience mean that pilotless attack planes controlled by an operator's thoughts may be a reality in the "not too distant future", according to Professor Rod Flower.
But he warned that such technology would take ethical concerns over the use of drone weapons to a new level.
The CIA's use of drones to "take out" alleged al Qaida terrorists in Pakistan, Afghanistan and elsewhere has already stirred up a storm of controversy, with claims of numerous innocent civilians being killed.
Prof Flower, a biochemist at the William Harvey Research Institute, Queen Mary, University of London, chaired a Royal Society working group looking at the potential military impact of advances in neuroscience.
In their report, one of a series from the Royal Society looking at the field of neuroscience, the experts call on the UK government to be as "transparent as possible" about research into military and law enforcement applications.
They also urge scientists to be aware that their work could be used to harm as well as help and heal.
One such area of cutting edge research involves the development of "mind-control" systems to aid people severely disabled by illness or injury.
Scientists have already demonstrated how a patient's thoughts can be used to move prosthetic limbs or a cursor on a computer screen.
Prof Flower said it may not be long before thought control technology is applied to military machines.
At the same time, drones were becoming increasingly autonomous, raising serious ethical questions.
Speaking at a press conference in London, Prof Flower said: "At the moment, drone control is like controlling a model aircraft, but supposing some time in the not too distant future a drone was controlled by your thoughts.
"The drone may even have some self defence capability. You could see a situation where what you think and what the drone interprets you thinking is very, very blurred. So where does the responsibility for blowing up a wedding party lie? Is it with your brain or the software in the drone?"
The working party focused mainly on chemical weapons designed to incapacitate temporarily rather than kill.
Scientific evidence suggested it would not be possible in the foreseeable future to develop a "safe" incapacitating agent.
The death of more than 100 hostages in 2002 after Russian forces used a knock-out gas to storm a theatre seized by Chechen terrorists showed how the use of such weapons can go disastrously wrong.
Yet there were worrying indications of moves to develop incapacitating chemicals for use in domestic law enforcement and riot control, said the working group.
Although the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC), which the UK has signed, forbids the military use of incapacitating agents, it permits their use for "law enforcement including domestic riot control purposes".
In 2009 the British Government issued a statement suggesting that employing such agents for law enforcement could comply with CWC. Previously it had seemed to accept that CS gas and other "riot control agents" were the only chemicals permissible for law enforcement.
The working group urged the Government to publish a new statement clarifying its position.
Prof Flower said: "We know that neuroscience research has the potential to deliver great social benefit - researchers come closer every day to finding effective treatments for diseases and disorders such as Parkinson's, depression, schizophrenia, epilepsy and addiction. However, understanding of the brain and human behaviour coupled with developments in drug delivery also highlight ways of degrading human performance that could possibly be used in new weapons, especially incapacitating chemical agents.
"This is why it is so important that the UK Government is clear about its reasons for the changes made to its interpretation of the law enforcement exemption in the CWC."
*****
Brain Waves Module 3: Neuroscience, security and conflict
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wflw_MIKEIc&feature=player_embedded
Uploaded by RoyalSociety on Feb 6, 2012
Interview with Professor Rod Flower FRS, chair of the Royal Society's new report.
Scientists are hopeful that advances in our understanding of the human brain will improve the lives and performance of the UK's armed forces however they have warned that careful consideration should be given to how research is prioritised so as not to come at a cost to other applications. A report published today (7 February) by the Royal Society, the UK's national academy of science, also aims to debunk some common myths surrounding how militaries might use this type of research.
***
EJ: All this has some relevance to other threads and topics as well.
Rise of the Drones – UAVs After 9/11 - Peter Lemkin - 20-02-2012
I fail to see how blame is less if a killer drone or spy drone is controlled by thoughts or one's hand. Control is control. What is really frightening are the development of autonomous drones - believed to already exist or just months away. Then you have to blame the programmer[s] if anyone by Military/Intel. 'logic'. With a fair legal system [the USA NO LONGER HAS ONE!] any of the above could be prosecuted at the highest levels for deciding to build, building, funding and allowing building-funding-use of such vehicles!!!! Sadly, in our current 'system' might [and money] make 'right' or immunity from crimes or being persecuted for crimes - no matter how large they be.
Rise of the Drones – UAVs After 9/11 - Ed Jewett - 21-02-2012
Peter Lemkin Wrote:I fail to see how blame is less if a killer drone or spy drone is controlled by thoughts or one's hand. Control is control. What is really frightening are the development of autonomous drones - believed to already exist or just months away. Then you have to blame the programmer[s] if anyone by Military/Intel. 'logic'. With a fair legal system [the USA NO LONGER HAS ONE!] any of the above could be prosecuted at the highest levels for deciding to build, building, funding and allowing building-funding-use of such vehicles!!!! Sadly, in our current 'system' might [and money] make 'right' or immunity from crimes or being persecuted for crimes - no matter how large they be.
I share your concerns about the law of the new level of existence now well underway, the issues of artificial intelligence, human intelligence, the ability to discern and discriminate (and I mean that term in its best cognitive use).
I recently posted an old nine-part series coming out of my archives on the topics of attention and focus that starts here: http://summonthemagic.blogspot.com/2012/02/on-attention-and-focus-one-of-nine.html . If a nervous system must always be on the lookout for the most important activities to which to devote itself (the ultimate purpose of emotion), then an A.I.-driven drone -- which is by definition emotionless and non-human) has lot of learning to do to be able to discriminate high-altitude flock-watchers from terrorists or enemies or anything short of a human need finding its Maslovian flow among quadrapeds.
The vast majority of humans don't use their minds to anything near their capacities, and fail to understand the internal interaction of senses, hormones and synapses (or its implications) in decision-making. How can we expect a crude robotic airplane fitted with a complex string of 0's and 1's to do better? Could a drone pass this test? http://viscog.beckman.illinois.edu/grafs/demos/15.html