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Frank Olson Murder - David Guyatt - 19-03-2010
Letter to the Editor:
Quote:Dear Sir,
I am writing to point out a number of factual errors in Andrew Malone's feature of 18th March 2010 captioned "Was idyllic French village driven crazy by LSD in a secret American mind experiment?"
Sidney Gottleib was not an "alcoholic", nor was he a "renegade" CIA officer. Nor, more importantly, was he involved in the LSD experiment on Pont-Saint-Esprit.
That operation was run by the Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, Maryland, in conjunction with the CIA project known as "Artichoke", that was under the auspices of the Security Research Staff (SRS) of the Office of Security (OS) of the CIA. Author H B Albarelli Jr states that Artichoke had three main components: "(1) interrogation/torture; (2) mind-control and mind control research; and (3) assassinations.
MKULTRA was run by a different branch of the CIA and was not involved in the Pont-Saint-Esprit experiment at any point.
Sincerely,
David Guyatt
Frank Olson Murder - Phil Dragoo - 19-03-2010
In many ways it is all surreal, then and today. The truth is difficult to reckon with for a lot of folks.
Excellent interview at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U9z-64FmV0
Regarding LSD, recall Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters, how Tom Wolfe held them at arm's length, of course he wouldn't take the drug--it would tarnish his vaunted objectivity, yet the impression was left that there was nothing substantial here, all sweetness and light, no darkside potential.
Marks' Search for the Manchurian Candidate presents a CIA pooh-poohing that much was accomplished, and of course we were assured by Gottlieb it was closed in 1973, parking lot emptied.
Papers written in 1949 suggesting use of LSD to sanitize an area in a nonviolent fashion for subsequent invasion?
1949 was the year James Forrestal emulated that Frenchman's "I am an airplane" act.
Has President Obama been assured by DCI Panetta that there's no gambling in his establishment?
Many thanks are owed to you, Mr. Albarelli, for following up on actions of an agency which have been subject to plausible denial by statute, as well as by no discernible moral compass, not needed in a wilderness of mirrors.
Frank Olson Murder - Keith Millea - 20-03-2010
Quote:Regarding LSD, recall Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters, how Tom Wolfe held them at arm's length, of course he wouldn't take the drug--it would tarnish his vaunted objectivity, yet the impression was left that there was nothing substantial here, all sweetness and light, no darkside potential.Phil,
I agree with your analysis here.The only "darkside episode" in the book to me was when the bus was heading to Houston,to hook-up with Keseys friend,author Larry McMurtry.This is when "Stark Naked",the passenger who according to Wolfe,went over the edge.Wolfe just glides by this episode.Maybe there was not much more to say on the matter that was relevent to him in his storyline.It did indeed leave a sour taste in my mouth.Here is what his declaration states;
" And there,amid the peaceful Houston elms on Quenby Road,it dawned on them all that this woman-which one of us even knows her?-had completed her trip.She had gone with the flow.She had gone stark raving mad".
And then this;
"Stark Naked had done her thing.She roard off into the void and was picked up by the cops by and by,and the doors closed in the County psychiatric ward,and that was that,for the Pranksters were long gone". :hmpf:
Frank Olson Murder - Keith Millea - 20-03-2010
deleted= double post
But
Just for reference:
The book being talked about above is "The Electric Cool-Aid Acid Test".
Stark Naked was the nickname given to a passenger on Keseys bus.She had decided that she no longer needed to wear clothing.
Frank Olson Murder - Ed Jewett - 20-03-2010
Peter Lemkin Wrote:[quote=Magda Hassan]some French mind-control agents ...just an idea...:bandit:
Champagne and brie?
Truffles and Chateauneuf du Pape?
Dubonnet and Catharine Deneuve?
a ride in a Citroen deux chevaux with Remy Julienne?
Frank Olson Murder - Charles Drago - 20-03-2010
Avec la belle Deneuve, I am more interested in behind control.
Frank Olson Murder - Anthony Marsh - 31-03-2010
As you know, I am also interested in the death of John Paisley and hope that other researchers can give me more information about case. My father was the section chief of Research and Development at the National Security Agency and was also one of the victims of the CIA's drug experimentation program. He was also the NSA liaison to the CIA and his counterpart and close friend was John Paisley. My father left that Paisley was killed. I think the reason why he was killed (probably by the KGB) was because he was going to report that he had found the mole planted by the KGB. His supposed suicide is just as suspicious as Frank Olson's supposed suicide.
Frank Olson Murder - Magda Hassan - 31-03-2010
Very interesting Anthony. Perhaps Hank Albarelli and others here might be able to offer some insights here. I don't know anything about John Paisley or his death myself though.
Frank Olson Murder - Jan Klimkowski - 31-03-2010
Anthony Marsh Wrote:As you know, I am also interested in the death of John Paisley and hope that other researchers can give me more information about case. My father was the section chief of Research and Development at the National Security Agency and was also one of the victims of the CIA's drug experimentation program. He was also the NSA liaison to the CIA and his counterpart and close friend was John Paisley. My father left that Paisley was killed. I think the reason why he was killed (probably by the KGB) was because he was going to report that he had found the mole planted by the KGB. His supposed suicide is just as suspicious as Frank Olson's supposed suicide.
Anthony - in my judgement, John Paisley's life and death is a prime riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. He was involved in many crucial deep political events, any of which could have led to his murder.
Here are some examples:
i) Paisley's early UN and university career suggests he may have been an agency asset posing as a "peace-loving, broadly left-wing, idealist" from the CIA's inception;
ii) Dick Russell argues the case that the CIA & NSA electronics whizz Paisley, as deputy director of the Office of Strategic Research in the late 1950s, may have been directly involved with the false defection programme that despatched Oswald to the USSR;
iii) Paisley was involved in the interrogation of high profile Soviet defectors Golitsyn, Nosenko and Penkovsky, which is Angleton triple-agent, mole-hunting-mole paranoia territory;
iv) around 1970, Paisley became CIA liaison to the White House Special Investigations Unit, and was part of Operation Odessa, ostensibly an attempt to discredit the Pentagon Papers. Again wheels within wheels;
v) in the early 70s, Paisley allegedly helped organize Washington sex parties for politicians and the powerful. Joseph Trento, fwiw, claimed that reporter Carl Bernstein attended these parties, and that the sex dimension is why the Bernstein/Woodward source was known as Deep Throat. Indeed, it's even been claimed that Paisley was Deep Throat. Fwiw Bernstein has denied attending such parties, and denied that Paisley was Deep Throat.
As an addendum, my own judgement is that Deep Throat is a retrospective fictional construction created as a plot device for All The President's Men, and that Hollywood's finest movie about investigative journalism is unfortunately based on a series of lies. See here:
http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1327&postcount=5
vi) Paisley was involved in the A Team and B Team intelligence shenanigans under George H W Bush's Directorship of the CIA in 1976. That historical chapter's detritus leads straight to the neocons - particularly Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and Cheney;
vii) the Trentos, fwiw, accused Paisley of being a Soviet mole.
Paisley's 1978 death, whilst boating in the Chesapeake Bay, with gunshot wounds to his head and diving weights attached to his body, was ruled a suicide. It's an eerie precursor of the 1996 boating accident of one-time CIA Director William Colby, which was ruled a heart attack induced by hypothermia.
Hollywood has picked up on this, and often has influential politicians or spooks being assassinated by the CIA (or other US intelligence agencies) near water or whilst boating.
Perhaps "suicide by water" is a CIA signature, like MI6-induced road accidents and Mossad point-blank executions in public streets.
My own judgement on Frank Olson is that he was murdered because American intelligence elements feared that his increasing disgust regarding unethical and unscientific terminal experiments would lead to his "blowing the whistle".
If I remember correctly, and I'd welcome more accurate contributions here, Dick Russell tentatively believes that Paisley may have had some information about the assassins of JFK that he was about to make public.
I have a great deal of respect for Dick Russell, and his research. I hope other DPF members will be able to expand.
However, my tentative view is that I'd need to see more evidence before concluding that Paisley was about to commit an act of conscience similar to that for which Frank Olson paid with his life.
Frank Olson Murder - Charles Drago - 31-03-2010
One cannot hope to understand the Paisley affair as a KGB or a CIA operation/assassination. For reasons that remain only partially clear, he represented a threat to what has been termed “a treasonous cabal of hard-line American and Soviet intelligence agents whose masters were above Cold War differences.”
There is no greater secret to be protected -- at all costs.