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US spy chief Clapper defends Prism and phone surveillance - Printable Version +- Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora) +-- Forum: Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/forum-1.html) +--- Forum: Panopticon of Global Surveillance (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/forum-42.html) +--- Thread: US spy chief Clapper defends Prism and phone surveillance (/thread-10838.html) |
US spy chief Clapper defends Prism and phone surveillance - Peter Lemkin - 24-10-2013 Edward Snowden NSA files: Guardian should be prosecuted, says Tory MPJulian Smith speech to Commons attacked as McCarthyite by Labour MPs, furious at being prevented from speaking
The Guardian offices in London. Julian Smith MP has called for the newspaper to be prosecuted for its coverage of the NSA files leaked by Edward Snowden Photograph: David LeveneA Conservative MP has attacked the Guardian for publishing stories about mass surveillance by the security services based on leaks from the US whistleblower Edward Snowden. Speaking in parliament Julian Smith, MP for Skipton and Ripon, said that the newspaper had broken the law and should be prosecuted.But Smith's address was condemned as McCarthyism and "absolute scaremongering" by Labour MPs who were prevented from making speeches. Several MPs criticised the format of the parliamentary debate as they were denied an opportunity to intervene while Smith read out his speech and then the Home Office minister James Brokenshire gave the government's view that the Guardian's publication of the Snowden leaks had damaged national security. Smith had called the debate in Westminster Hall to raise concerns in parliament about the way the Guardian handled the Snowden files. The backbencher, who made a complaint about the Guardian to the police, criticised the newspaper for writing stories "with no consultation with government". He said: "In spite of the actions taken by the government to destroy the files held in the Guardian's London office, these files are out there, highly vulnerable to terrorist infiltration, and not just that these detailed files on GCHQ operations are now handed to an infinite number of extra eyes via American journalists and even bloggers. Each person multiplies the risk to this country. The Guardian focused on sending abroad revelations not about the American NSA or whistleblowing. They chose to distribute information about our own intelligence agents and GCHQ … To communicate, not just publish, any identifying information about GCHQ personnel is a terrorist offence. This is not press freedom this is the Guardian's devastating impact on national security." Smith's allegations were challenged by a number of Labour and Tory MPs. David Davis, a former Tory leadership candidate, and Dominic Raab, MP for Esher and Walton, asked why, if there had been harm to national security, there had been no charges against anyone related to the Guardian. Denied the chance to intervene, Paul Flynn, Labour MP for Newport West, asked why he was barred making a short speech."This is a piece of McCarthyite scaremongering and it disgraces parliament." David Winnick, MP for Walsall North, was forced to use a technical point of order to get his point across. He said: "A lot of what appeared in the Guardian that has been the subject of this debate has made certainly the US go into a wide-ranging inquiry into intelligence gathering, and what the Guardian has published has certainly been in the public interest." He later called the debate disgraceful saying the minister read his speech like a robot. However, Smith was backed by Julian Lewis, a member of the Commons intelligence and security committee, who said he would expect to be charged if he had released information as the Guardian had done. Brokenshire, for the government, said he wanted to highlight the "huge damage to national security caused by reporting attributed to the highly classified material stolen by Edward Snowden". He added: "There is no doubt Snowden's actions and publication of material stolen by him have damaged UK national security." Brokenshire said: "I cannot go into more detail of the damage done and the future damage. But we expect to lose coverage of some very dangerous individuals and groups." On Tuesday a spokesperson for Guardian News & Media said Smith's speech "propagated a series of myths" about the Guardian's reporting of the Snowden documents. "When responsible journalists working on the same story share documents they are engaged in journalism not terrorism. Senior politicians and government officials in the UK and internationally, over 30 of the world's leading newspaper editors, and an overwhelming majority of the public, have all said that the Guardian's reporting on this story is important for democracy." She added: "They all agree, as does Mr Smith, that surveillance of citizens by intelligence agencies is a legitimate subject for debate. But there would be no public debate had there been no disclosure." Davis suggested Smith should be more concerned that UK government secrets were "accessible to hundreds of thousands of US government employees", including Snowden, if he was so worried about national security. Paul Farrelly, Labour MP for Newcastle-Under-Lyme, said he wanted it put on the record that "none other than Obama has said some of these disclosures raise legitimate questions for our friends and allies about how these capabilities are employed". He also said the attack on the Guardian was "in danger of being misinterpreted potentially as joining the war of the Mail and other people, all because of its pursuit of phone hacking". Smith denied those accusations. US spy chief Clapper defends Prism and phone surveillance - Magda Hassan - 24-10-2013 It's the spies, not the leaks, that threaten our securityThe NSA-GCHQ machine is about global power, not protecting its citizens. US and British intelligence still fuel the terror threat
The war on terror has been a boon to the British intelligence services. After decades in which they became notorious for "counter-subversion" operations against political activists and trade unionists, colluding with death squads in Northern Ireland and helping the US to overthrow elected governments around the world, the spooks have at last had a chance to play the good guys. Instead of the seedy anti-democratic gang that plotted against a Labour prime minister, they can claim to be the first line of defence against indiscriminate attacks on the streets of Britain. MI5 has well over doubled in size in the past 10 years. Glamorised beyond parody in TV dramas such as Spooks, the spying agencies' uncheckable pronouncements about their exploits and supposed triumphs are routinely relayed by the media as fact. The same has been true in the US, but on a far larger canvas. So faced with the avalanche of leaks from the National Security Agency and GCHQ about the epic scale of their blanket electronic surveillance, both at home and abroad, the masters of Anglo-American espionage have played the "national security" card for all it's worth. The revelations of NSA contractor Edward Snowden in the Guardian have been a "gift" to terrorists, the head of MI5 Andrew Parker claimed, eagerly supported by the prime minister. The leaks were the "most catastrophic loss to British intelligence ever", insisted David Omand, the former head of GCHQ. They were cheered on by the trusties of the British press a fertile recruiting ground for British intelligence and the CIA over many years. National security has been imperilled, they all warned, as Tory demands for the Guardian to be prosecuted have grown. In reality, national security is a catchphrase so elastic as to be meaningless. As MI5 helpfully explains, government policy is "not to define the term, in order to retain the flexibility ... to adapt to changing circumstances" in other words, political expediency. If it simply meant protecting citizens from bombs on buses and trains, of course, most people would sign up for that. But as the Snowden leaks have moved from capability to content, it's been driven home that much of what NSA and GCHQ (virtually one organisation) are up to has nothing to do with terrorism or security at all, but, as might be expected, the exercise of naked state power to gain political and economic advantage. In the past few days the French have discovered (courtesy of Le Monde) that the NSA harvested 70m digital communications in France in one month, with special focus on French-American telecoms firm Alcatel-Lucent, while the Mexicans have learned (via Der Spiegel) that their president's emails were hacked into by US intelligence to "plan international investments" and strengthen US diplomatic leverage. Something similar happened to Brazil's president Dilma Rousseff, just as world leaders were targeted at the G20, while India and Germany were among other countries treated to the full electronic harvest treatment. Terrorism was clearly well down the priority list. The protests of French and other western governments, which of course have their own, less effective espionage capability and collude with the US across the board, are largely for public consumption. France was among several European states that cravenly bowed to US pressure toforce the Bolivian president Evo Morales's aircraft to land this summer, in a hamfisted attempt to kidnap the elusive whistleblower Snowden. But it is the scale and reach of the NSA-GCHQ operation and the effective global empire it is used to police that sets it apart. And when it comes to terrorism, the evidence is that the US and British intelligence agencies are fuelling it as much as fighting it. Take drone attacks, which are Obama's weapon of choice in the new phase of the war on terror. They are reckoned to have killed up to 3,613(926 of them civilians, including 200 children) in Pakistan alone. Amnesty International this week argued that US officials should stand trial over evidence of war crimes in the Pakistan drone campaign. Human Rights Watch has made a similar case over the slaughter in Yemen. The drone war is run by the CIA and US military. But, as the Snowden leaks confirm (this time in the Washington Post), the NSA is intimately involved in what are often anything but "targeted killings" as is GCHQ, now facing legal action in London over war crimes brought by the son of a Pakistani victim of a 2011 drone attack. Drones have, as the New York Times put it, "replaced Guantánamo as the recruiting tool of choice for militants", cited as justification by jihadists for attacks on western cities. The same goes for the role of US and British intelligence, serviced by theNSA and GCHQ, in a decade of torture and state kidnapping. As the evidence of MI5 and MI6 complicity with CIA black sites, "extraordinary rendition", waterboarding and genital mutilation has built up from Bagram to Guantánamo, Pakistan to Morocco court case has followed police investigation. You might call it a recruitment "gift" to al-Qaida. But neither the agencies nor the politicians supposed to supervise them have yet been held to account. Meanwhile, despite its multiple failures, the war on terror keeps expanding, spreading terror as it goes. The new front is Africa, where theUS military is now involved in 49 out of 54 states. Two years after what was supposed to have been a successful intervention in Libya, the country is again on the brink of a new civil war, its prime minister begging to be rescued from the backlash over another US kidnapping. It's a democratic necessity that the Snowden leaks are used to bring some genuine accountability to the NSA-GCHQ machine and its lawless industrial-scale espionage. But to frame the controversy as a trade-off between security and privacy misses the wider picture. The main western intelligence agencies are instruments of global dominance, whose role in the rest of the world has a direct impact on their own citizens. It's not the revelations that threaten our security, but the agencies and their political masters themselves. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/23/spies-not-leaks-threaten-security US spy chief Clapper defends Prism and phone surveillance - Magda Hassan - 24-10-2013 zerohedge â€3m GERMAN FEDERAL PROSECUTOR OBSERVING POSSIBLE MERKEL PHONE TAP. Obama to be sued in the Hague? stay tuned US spy chief Clapper defends Prism and phone surveillance - Keith Millea - 24-10-2013 Quote: Here's a better photo.And,Angie looks real pissed,eh?Angela should give Dilma a call and get a few pointers on how to really react to personal privacy invasions...... US spy chief Clapper defends Prism and phone surveillance - Magda Hassan - 24-10-2013 HOW TO EAVESDROP ON A FORMER NSA CHIEF ON A TRAIN Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 05:27 PM By PJ Vogt Former NSA head Michael Hayden took the train today. He spent his time on the phone, giving interviews to reporters in which he asked to be identified only as an anonymous former senior administration official. What Hayden didn't know was that ex-MoveOn'er Tom Matzzie was sitting within earshot and livetweeting Hayden's anonymous conversations. Oops. Former NSA spy boss Michael Hayden on Acela behind me blabbing "on background as a former senior admin official" Sounds defensive.
Tom Matzzie (@tommatzzie) October 24, 2013 Hayden talking about a famous blackberry now.
Tom Matzzie (@tommatzzie) October 24, 2013 Hayden was bragging about rendition and black sites a minute ago.
Tom Matzzie (@tommatzzie) October 24, 2013 Michael Hayden on Acela giving reporters disparaging quotes about admin. "Remember, just refer as former senior admin"#exNSAneedsadayjob
Tom Matzzie (@tommatzzie) October 24, 2013 On Acela: Michael Hayden was talking to Massimo Calabresi at TIME I am pretty sure. Does he tweet?
Tom Matzzie (@tommatzzie) October 24, 2013 On Acela: former NSA spy boss Michael Hayden just ended last of handful of interviews bashing admin.
Tom Matzzie (@tommatzzie) October 24, 2013 On Acela listening to former NSA spy boss Michael Hayden give "off record" interviews. I feel like I'm in the NSA. Except I'm in public.
Tom Matzzie (@tommatzzie) October 24, 2013 On Acela: phone ringing. I think the jig is up. Maybe somebody is telling him I'm here. Do I hide?
Hayden's office eventually called to tell him that he was being spied on. At which point Hayden said hello to Mattzie and the two snapped a photo. Not a bad sport, considering.Tom Matzzie (@tommatzzie) October 24, 2013 Win pic.twitter.com/tsJHqjv1LM
Tom Matzzie (@tommatzzie) October 24, 2013 http://www.onthemedia.org/story/eavesdropping-former-nsa-head-amtrak/ US spy chief Clapper defends Prism and phone surveillance - David Guyatt - 25-10-2013 Magda Hassan Wrote:HOW TO EAVESDROP ON A FORMER NSA CHIEF ON A TRAIN You's think he would understand the meaning of the word "security" would't you? The first Tweet was @ 1:20 and the last @ 1:57 - and elapsed time of 37 minutes, which just goes to show how real time surveillance is as presumably his old firm was keeping tabs on him and alerted him to the fact he was being listened to. US spy chief Clapper defends Prism and phone surveillance - David Guyatt - 25-10-2013 35 world leaders surveilled by NSA: Quote:Germany and France demand talks with US over NSA spying revelations US spy chief Clapper defends Prism and phone surveillance - Peter Lemkin - 26-10-2013 NSA "uber-leaker" Edward Snowden has reportedly considered sharing his personal testimony with Congress over Skype. Newsweek reports that former NSA whistleblower Thomas Drake met with the infamous leaker in Moscow, saying, "I am fairly confident that he would consider it if formally invited and could do so through safe channels. However, instead of being invited to brief secret committees who have been complicit in NSA's surveillance programs, I think he is much more inclined to proved public testimony on the record." Susan Phalen, the House Intelligence Committee spokeswoman, confirms that her boss, chairman of the House Mike Rogers would "entertain that request." Rogers is the Republican chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, a former FBI special agent and a harsh critic of Edward Snowden, calling him a "traitor" and a "liar" in the past. However, chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Senator Dianne Feinstein, has no comment on viewing testimony from Snowden via video, previously calling his leaks "an act of treason." Newsweek reports that fellow whistleblowers and "allies" of Snowden are somewhat baffled at the lack of eagerness in questioning Snowden. Although Phalen told Newsweek, "If Snowden is interested in talking with the House intelligence committee, he needs to contact the committee directly or through counsel." Snowden allies say that's not a problem according to Newsweek, the group claims if Rogers is ready to move past name-calling, Snowden will make himself Skype-available. Read more: http://www.ryot.org/will-congress-let-snowden-testify-via-skype/442713#ixzz2iocQbL78 US spy chief Clapper defends Prism and phone surveillance - David Guyatt - 27-10-2013 The Snowden revelations - although not entirely new - is the story that keeps giving. Naughty Obama caught lying to Merkel. Oh dearie me. Quote: US spy chief Clapper defends Prism and phone surveillance - David Guyatt - 30-10-2013 Quote:white house offers tentative support for plans to rein in nsa surveillance. |